Episode 38

From the Deep End to the Punchline: Choosing to Stay

9 38

From the Deep End to the Punchline: Choosing to Stay

Show Notes

 In this blistering comeback episode, Frank King—comedian, TEDx titan, and self-proclaimed barrel‑of‑the‑gun survivor—explores the constant threat of suicide quietly creeping into daily life. He teaches us that humor doesn’t minimize pain; it proves survival is possible. Grounded in lived experience—not textbooks—Frank's mission is clear: one conversation, one life saved.

Sections with Emojis:

  • 💥 What We Talk About: Chronic suicidal thoughts, choosing humor over hunger for oblivion, how sharing your truth can save another's life.
  • 🔗 How to Connect with episode guest: Frank King via thementalhealthcomedian.com / Instagram/Twitter @theMHcomedian – or ask me for a booking link.

5. Crisis Support

📞 If You’re in Crisis: If you're in North America, text 988—free, 24/7 support. Elsewhere, please reach out to your local suicide prevention or mental health hotline. #YouMatter

6. Subscribe/Share

💬 Subscribe, rate, and share if today’s episode pulled you back from the edge. Someone else out there might not even know they needed it yet. #ConverSAVEtions

Bio

Frank King, Suicide Prevention Speaker, writer for The Tonight Show for 20 years, speaker and comedian for 39.

His speaking is informed by his lifetime of Depression and Suicidality and coming close enough to ending his life that he can tell you what the barrel of his gun tastes like. 

Turning that long dark journey of the soul into 13 TEDx Talks, sharing his lifesaving insights with corporations, and associations.

He’s shared the stage with comedians, Jeff Foxworthy, Adam Sandler, Jerry Seinfeld, Dr. Ken Jung, Ellen DeGeneres, Dennis Miller, and Bill Hicks, as well as entertainers, Lou Rawls, The Beach Boys, Randy Travis, and Nancy Wilson.

On top of all of that, he has survived 2 aortic valve replacements, a double bypass, a heart attack, and losing to a puppet on the original Star Search and has lived to joke about it all.

Links & Socials

Suicide Zen Forgiveness Stories re Suicide Loss | Ideation | Mental Health | Offering Hope |Empathy for All website

©2025-2018 Elaine Lindsay SZF42.com All rights reserved.

https://suicide-zen-forgiveness.captivate.fm/episode/from-the-deep-end-to-the-punchline-choosing-to-stay

Elaine Lindsay

Explicit

Transcript
Theme Song:

When moving forward seems too much.

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When you feel totally out of

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touch,

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Hope is seeping out the

door, you find yourself.

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Curled on the floor.

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The thoughts swirl around

all jumbled and messed.

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Why is this brain so darkly obsessed?

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I have secrets I've never confessed,

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haven't told the soul.

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I am depressed

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a gentle whisper through the pain

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“Remember, rainbows follow rain.”

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Breathe deeply, hold on

tight, Your hope will return

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Shining.

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bright.

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Embrace the now, release

the past In forgiveness.

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Peace will last.

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You matter deeply.

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You're not alone.

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Reach out.

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Let your strength be shown.

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Frank king: Hello

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there.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Hello.

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It's so good to be back.

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I'm Elaine Lindsay.

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This is Suicide Zen Forgiveness,

and I have a returning guest I

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am very honored to be here today

with, and we are at the start of

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Suicide Prevention Awareness month.

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So I think it only fitting that I'm

gonna call you the king of mental health.

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I'm gonna get Frank to tell you a

little bit about what he does, but

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first I just wanna say something.

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I think it's incredibly important

that people know Frank has

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already done 13 TED Talks.

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13.

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Okay, that's a big one and a three, and

you can just go to TED and check that out.

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You have to have some

really important messages.

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I think to get past five, nevermind 13.

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So I said you take every single drop

of what Frank offers us today because I

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am so honored to have you back with me.

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Frank king: You are so kind, and your

audience should know that I really had

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no choice Elaine because this is part

of a plea bargain arrangement, and

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they should know, okay?

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They should know also that I'm a comedian.

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I've been a comedian

since the fourth grade.

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When I told my first

joke, the kids laughed.

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The teacher was hysterical.

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And at nine years old, I thought to

myself, I'm going to be a comedian.

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And 12th grade talent show.

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Nobody had ever done standup.

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I did it.

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I won, of course, I beat the

accordion player in the folk dancers.

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Not a tough victory, but

a victory nonetheless.

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And then said to my mother,

I'm gonna be a comedian.

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I'm going to LA after high school.

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She goes, no, you're

going to college first.

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I don't care what you

do when you get done.

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You can be a goat herder for all

I care, but you're gonna be a

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goat herder with a college degree.

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So I went to u unc, chapel

Hill, couple of college degrees,

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then bolted for the West coast.

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My first open Mike night, April 1st, 1984.

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Halfway through my five minutes,

I heard a voice inside my

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head that said, you're home.

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Decided at that moment I was

gonna do it for a living.

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Had no idea how I've threatened for

years to write a keynote called,

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what could you do if you did Know?

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No Better?

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'cause I had no idea how hard it was.

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18 months later said to my girlfriend,

then my wife now of 38 years.

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I'm going on the road

to be a comic full time.

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You wanna come along for the ride?

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Figuring she'd go, oh hell no.

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She said, yeah.

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So we gave up the apartment and our

jobs and jumped into my tiny little

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Dodge Colt and we were on the road for

2,629 nights in a road nonstop, and

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worked with Seinfeld and Dennis Miller

and Rosie and Allen and Adam Sandler,

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Kevin James, and opened up for Lou

Raws and Randy Travis, the Beach Boys.

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Amazing.

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10 years on the road.

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Then did some radio.

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In my old hometown of Raleigh, North

Carolina 18 months, I took a number one

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morning show, drove it to number six.

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A friend of mine said, you didn't

just drive it in the ground, you

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drove it in the middle Earth.

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True.

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Then got into corporate comedy, which

people ask, what's the difference between

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a corporate comic and a club comic?

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About five grand a night plus travel.

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So I did that for 10 years until

the last recession into the

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world financial collapse and.

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We lost everything at that point

in chapter seven bankruptcy, and

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that's when I learned what the

barrel of my gun tasted like.

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Spoiler alert, I did not pull the trigger.

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A friend of mine came to a keynote not

long ago and he thought he'd be funny.

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He came up to me, he goes, Hey, man,

how come you didn't pull the trigger?

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I says, Hey, man, could you try to

sound slightly less disappointed?

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He's a good friend.

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But anyway, after speaking, came back.

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I'd always wanted to make

a living and a difference.

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I just had no idea how.

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Yeah.

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And meeting Planner said

to me, Frank, we love you.

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We just can't pay you that kind

of money anymore just to be funny.

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You gotta teach the audience something.

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So fortunately I have a friend named

Judy Carter and Judy wrote a book

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called The Message of You Turn Your

Life into a Moneymaking Speaking Career.

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And she gave me an audible copy.

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She goes, Frank, listen to this.

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You'll figure it out.

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And halfway through, I thought I do have

something to talk about given depression,

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suicide run in my family, more nuts

in my family than in a squirrel turd.

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The fact I have two minute illnesses.

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The fact that I came very close to

killing myself, I thought I could keynote

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on suicide prevention as a workplace.

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Health and safety issue.

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Yeah.

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My second thought was, yeah, who's

gonna take me seriously after

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two and a half decades of comedy?

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So my wife said, do a TEDx.

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And I said, what's a TEDx?

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It just so happened I got an application

that week from one in Vancouver, BC.

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And I filled it out, got the audition.

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Got it.

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And then two more events called and said,

do you have any more mental health topics?

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Oh yes.

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So that's the first three.

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And then the rest of, I've got 10

more about one a year since:

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And I speak preventions workplace.

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Yep.

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Yeah, I'm leaving for Pacific Missouri.

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Didn't know there was a Pacific Missouri.

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Next Monday, a week from

today, the construction.

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Construction, by the way, in

the US has the highest rate

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of suicide of any industry.

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Thousand people roughly die every

year accident 6,000 die by suicide.

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Yeah.

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You're six times more likely

to jump off the building.

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I know.

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Yep.

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That's why they're my number one ideal

client because the problem is so bad.

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Oh.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

And I find it a little hard.

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You must as well, because all the stats

we have are at least two, three years old.

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It's really hard to actually

get stats on suicide.

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Frank king: That's 2022 CDC, 2022.

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A thousand people in 2021,

died by accident construction.

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6,000 died by suicide.

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But if you look back historically

that's about average for construction.

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So it's so I'm doing that one and

I'm doing the Texas roofers again,

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construction in later in the month.

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And then there's a, I did a couple of

presentations for the Washington State.

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Patrol law enforcement.

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Yeah.

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And there was a woman there from

a department where they watch

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all the body cam video that you

know, and catalog it for trial.

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Yeah.

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And many of them, if they're of an

age, they didn't sign up for that.

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No.

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They would read reports

back in the day, but to see.

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That sort of, whatever on video, giving

CPR to an infant or terribly disturbing.

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And so there's a great deal of

stress and overwhelm and burnout.

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Some, I'm gonna do a talk on mental

health and wellness in the workplace

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as well as suicide prevention.

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So it's yeah,

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: and it's

sad that this is such a problem.

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We can talk about having

to do this by industry.

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Frank king: Yes.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

That is a terrifying thought.

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I know.

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Frank king: Go ahead.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh, I

was gonna say I know early on in

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COVID what was shocking to me.

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By the end of 20 21, 1 of the big

industries became veterinarians

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Frank king: and still is veterinarians,

physicians dentists and people ask,

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do you do the same keynote each time?

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Pretty much the same keynote, same

learning objective, same takeaways.

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The difference is the risk factors.

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The risk factors for veterinarians are

different than the risk factors for.

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People in construction, however,

veterinarians, physicians, dentists, and

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attorneys, the IT has become suicide's.

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Not the is a result, not the actual issue.

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Because what the issue is many of

them come outta college in the US

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with half a million dollars in student

loan debt before they open a practice.

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So there's financial stress, which

leads to mental and physical stress,

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which leads to heart attack, stroke.

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Depression, suicide.

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So they, those four, those

professionals, those practices

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they have that in common very much.

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Whereas construction, it's deadlines,

seasonal work relatively low educated.

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Yeah.

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Plus they treat injuries,

oftentimes opioids.

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So it's that's their factor.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

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The pharmaceutical addiction

is as high, if not higher.

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Than street addiction.

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We just don't really talk about it.

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Frank king: And over a hundred

thousand people die from opioid

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overdose every year in the us.

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And what we don't know is how

many were suicides, how many were

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accidental overdoses, accidental,

because often there's no note.

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We really don't.

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And that's separate from

the suicide statistics.

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When I started my first TEDx talk.

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That year or the year before,

39,000 people died by suicide.

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Last year, I believe it was, or 2023,

it was a little over 50,000 people.

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Another 11,000 added to the number

in the an eight year stretch.

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Yeah.

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So it's not getting

better, it's getting worse.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: No and the.

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The opi, the opioid crisis in Canada

is absolutely out of hand as well.

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And

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Frank king: yeah that I didn't know.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

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And I know that firsthand.

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I am a functional junkie.

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I am down to the least number of

opioids one can possibly have.

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But it is required to keep me upright

and functioning and getting off.

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Getting off the bucket full was not easy.

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It took almost two years, but I'm happy to

say that I'm on the right side of it now.

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Frank king: I have the way

I'm wired physiologically.

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It turns out I have an, I

have I'm allergic to opioids.

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Oh, wow.

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If he, if you gimme anything, that

I'm throwing up like Lindsay Lohan

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after a three day weekend and.

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And I tell providers that I

go, look, if you're gonna gimme

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opioids, I need the legal limit

of Zofran, which is an antiemetic.

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Oh, we'll Google something.

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Take the edge off.

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I said no.

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Edge.

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Because I'm telling you.

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Yeah.

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So I, it's very fortunate that

I, that, that sort of painkiller,

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I cannot I cannot tolerate so

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: well.

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I said early on that I'm very lucky,

God, the universe, whomever, did

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not give me a taste for alcohol.

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I hate the taste of alcohol.

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Thank God.

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Frank king: Yeah.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Because

I would've been one mean drunk

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Frank king: said one time,

i'm not addicted to cocaine.

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I just like the smell of it.

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He also said cocaine is

God's way of telling you.

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You're making too much money.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah, you really have to consider

that when you think it's something

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that people like cigarettes.

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I was a smoker early on.

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I quit in 1988 and then cigarettes went

up to almost $10 a pack, and at one point

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I smoked two and a half packs a day.

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Frank king: And

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: I thought,

there's no way on God's green Earth

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I am wasting 25 bucks on cigarettes.

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I could be shocking.

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And that was, it.

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Never had nothing.

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Frank king: A cousin of mine, her sister

just passed away and in her eighties

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and she's cleaning out the house and.

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Her sister was a smoker, Marl bros.

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And she found two cartons in a bag.

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And she goes, Frank, I looked at

her seat, it was over, over $200.

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Yeah.

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For, yeah.

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I, she goes, I think I'm gonna

put, she goes, I think I'm gonna

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include these in the estate sale.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

Yeah, probably some money too.

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Frank king: Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

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It's absolutely shocking to me the

price of cigarettes and we are on,

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like very close to the American border,

and we are also in an area where

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there were a number of reservations.

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So in the eighties and nineties

when cigarettes got very pricey.

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There was a huge trade in

illegal cigarettes running

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back and forth across the St.

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Lawrence River.

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I had quit by then, so I did

not contribute, but I know

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a lot of people that did.

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Frank king: Yes.

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And I have sailed in St.

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Lawrence actually.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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I worked

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Frank king: on cruises as a comic starting

in:

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was from Quebec, I think down the St.

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Lawrence at, they call 'em leaf pees.

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It's as the leaves are changing,

you're sailing down to St.

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Lawrence.

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Yeah.

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Oh my God.

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It was, it's, and the St.

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Lawrence is not that wide.

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You almost feel like you reach

out in Texas, that church.

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Yeah.

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And the foliage.

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Whoa.

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Was something else?

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

It is spectacular.

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I know that New Hampshire and

Vermont is lovely in the fall,

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but it has nothing on Quebec.

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Oh my God.

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Frank king: No.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Like that.

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No.

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Hills are just absolutely stunning.

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We came down the St.

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Lawrence partway.

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On a freighter.

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We came to this country

not on some fancy cruise.

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We came on a freighter.

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And luckily for me, I was just I

was about three years old and the

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captain liked having a little,

somebody meandering around, although

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my parents kept me in reigns.

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Like a horse.

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Frank king: Yeah.

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They were

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: afraid I was

going over the side and granny, I'm so

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sorry that I'm gonna tell this story, but

just before we landed, my grandmother was

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sick over the side and lost her teeth.

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So when she got, oh my Lord.

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Yeah, it wasn't a good sign

scene for a couple of months.

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'cause we basically came here

with the clothes on our back.

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My mom and dad gave up all the

furniture so that we could bring

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my grandmother, my aunt with us.

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So yeah, forgive me grand.

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But yeah, so it they all

went out and worked so they

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could get her some new teeth.

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Frank king: Yes.

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Hey, and we talked about last

time we knew what we have to do.

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That is correct.

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Last time we talked about, I talked

about chronic suicidal ideation.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yes.

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Frank king: Which is rare.

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And I believe Elaine didn't realize that

was what she had until I brought it up.

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That, that has recurred in my career.

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Generally at my keynote, at least

one person in the audience has that.

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They have no idea it has a name.

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They think they're just some

kind of freak and all alone.

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A young woman come up after

a college presentation, said

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thank you for your keynote.

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I said, you're welcome.

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She goes, but I gotta

tell you, it made me weep.

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How did it make you weep?

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She said, you know your story.

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I tell a story about.

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Chronic suicidal ideation means that for

me and Elaine and people in our drive, the

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option of suicide's always on the menu as

a solution for problems large and small.

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And when I say small, my car

broke down a couple years ago.

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I had three thoughts on bid.

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One, get it, fix two, buy a new and

three, hell, I can just kill myself.

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So she says, you know

your story about the car.

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Get it fixed by and do and kill yourself.

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I go, yeah.

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She goes, I've been having

those thoughts all my life.

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I had no idea that had a name.

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I thought I was just a freak.

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Completely alone.

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And when I heard you say it out

loud, you have it, it's a thing I

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realized the first time in my life.

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She said, I'm not alone, and I wept.

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That's the power of starting

the conversation on suicide

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is things like that.

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And so it's rare, but it it does exist.

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It's not in the DSM five.

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Hopefully it'll be in the DSM six

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of

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the Big Book of Psychiatric Diseases.

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But yeah it's relatively rare and it

doesn't make sense to, normies, what?

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No, your car broke down.

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You can kill yourself.

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No, it's not a serious thought.

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I could finance another one.

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I'm not gonna tie over a, bad

radiator, but, and Elaine barely

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didn't know that, that she'd been

living with that her entire life, and

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: It was

the very first time you were on back

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in 2021 and you talked about it.

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And I can remember it was like

I was watching prices, right?

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Ding ding.

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There you got it.

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Frank king: Oh my

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: god.

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But as a child, I just, you know how you

just assume everybody thinks like that?

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Yes.

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I was as a little kid, I had these

horrific fevers and for a long time

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they didn't know what they were.

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And my parents ended up

borrowing thermometers from

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everybody in the building.

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Now, luckily for my parents,

there were only 12 apartments.

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I bit through every one of them.

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I didn't like those things.

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I was a bit of a brat and I bit

through them and my parents had

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to take the grocery money and

replace people's thermometers.

396

:

But what happened, they would all TRAs

into our apartment with their ice cube

397

:

trays because the only way to get my

fevers down was put me in a ice bath.

398

:

Frank king: So

399

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: very often

for me it was, let's see, get in the

400

:

ice bag, bath, or jump off the balcony.

401

:

I think I wanna jump off the balcony,

but it was always hard because they were

402

:

forever pulling me back in the house.

403

:

And like he said, it was for

everything like crazy things by

404

:

the time I was in grade three and

I was stuck with this curly hair.

405

:

I can remember one morning my hair was

just so curly and I'd been called Shirley

406

:

Temple for the umpteenth time, and I

thought, I could just say I'm sick and

407

:

stay home for school, or I could just end

my life because that to me, just, it was

408

:

always on the table until I lost my friend

at 16 and it came into very sharp focus.

409

:

What that meant to just end your life.

410

:

And then it became a battle inside

me because the other thing that

411

:

happened early on when I was five

or six, I saw the movie Pollyanna

412

:

with Haley Mills and Oh, love.

413

:

Yeah.

414

:

She, yes.

415

:

All the guys thought she was great.

416

:

Her dad taught her to play

something called the GLAD Game.

417

:

You always found something

to be glad about.

418

:

So my ideation half and the

GLAD Game fought all the time.

419

:

It was constant until Andrea

died and then things got scary.

420

:

But tell us more about our tribe.

421

:

And

422

:

what did you do to manage this?

423

:

Frank king: Speaking, somebody asked me

once actually more than once, somebody

424

:

more than once does retelling your story

on stage because I tell my story on stage.

425

:

My grandmother died by suicide.

426

:

My mother founded, my

great aunt died by suicide.

427

:

My mother and I found her.

428

:

I was four years old.

429

:

I screamed for days.

430

:

And so they said, does that

trigger you to tell your story?

431

:

I said, no you, no it's

the reverse of that.

432

:

It's very therapeutic for me

because the young woman who came up

433

:

afterwards and had wept, she now,

hopefully I was able to steer her

434

:

far enough off the path to suicide.

435

:

She would live in her whole

life, and I remember being in, in

436

:

Montana, university of Montana,

I'd done a college presentation.

437

:

I'm standing outside the building.

438

:

It's dusk is snowing and I

can hear a river not far away.

439

:

So dusk, snowing river.

440

:

And the kid went to get his truck to

take him back to the hotel and with the

441

:

river, the dark, the snow, I thought.

442

:

And having people come up

afterwards and, and tell me

443

:

their story, share their story.

444

:

I thought, oh my god.

445

:

I'm like George Bailey,

and it's a wonderful life.

446

:

I've been shown what these people's

lives might be like if I weren't there

447

:

simply to tell my story and hear theirs.

448

:

And if I killed myself, I could, in

theory take a lot of these people with

449

:

me who never had a chance to do that.

450

:

So I'm stuck.

451

:

I'm stuck.

452

:

And a friend of mine said,

you can't live with that.

453

:

I go, no, you missed the point.

454

:

I can't die with that.

455

:

I can't, I can't.

456

:

So I find it very therapeutic.

457

:

People tell me things.

458

:

That they generally haven't told anybody.

459

:

I was doing a construction engagement,

'cause construction has the highest rate

460

:

of suicide in the US as industries go.

461

:

And it was on site and there were six

fellows lined up afterwards to check.

462

:

'cause I say look, we'll do some

general q and a and then when I'm done,

463

:

if you have a story you wanna share

or question don't wanna share with

464

:

everybody, I'll take 'em individually.

465

:

So I go over and there's six guys

lined up and the sixth guy in line.

466

:

African American gentleman,

I'm guessing mid twenties.

467

:

He's crying so hard he can't speak.

468

:

So I waited and he gathered himself.

469

:

I said, what's up?

470

:

He said I haven't slept in two

nights, and I work on the fifth

471

:

floor of this building, and I

think about jumping off every day.

472

:

I said, why is that?

473

:

He said, because I've lost three people

in the last year to violence, including

474

:

my daughter who died in my arms.

475

:

Oh.

476

:

I would you like somebody to pull the

pin on that grenade and drop in your lap?

477

:

Oh my God.

478

:

So the gentleman who hired

me was the HR director.

479

:

So I waved him over.

480

:

I go, and I said, look, you need to

go and find the EAP, the employees

481

:

assistance, program binder.

482

:

Find the nearest mental health facility

to where we're standing right this

483

:

minute, and take this nice young

man because he's circling the drain.

484

:

Couple of months later, I

had occasion to talk to the.

485

:

HR director and I was terrified to ask.

486

:

Finally got up my nerve, I go, whatever

happened to a nice African American

487

:

fellow, Frank, he got evaluated,

medicated, he's back on the job and I'm

488

:

guessing none of his workmates knew.

489

:

Probably a lot of his family

had no idea how close he was.

490

:

Yeah.

491

:

So that, that I find very, the,

I ended up a military base, the

492

:

national training base for the Army.

493

:

And it's it's in California just

off the interstate 10 Fort Erwin.

494

:

It's, it actually, it is interstate 10.

495

:

They go 30 miles up this road and they

call it the world's longest cul-de-sac.

496

:

It ends at the base and a third

of the soldiers on that base in an

497

:

anonymous survey had said they had

considered suicide in the last year.

498

:

So they brought me in for obvious

reasons and I did, I think I did two

499

:

or three keynotes that day to that

they rotated the soldiers through and

500

:

I had met the base psychologist and

did his podcast, and several months

501

:

later I got a DM on LinkedIn from him.

502

:

He said, Frank, a soldier

came into my office today.

503

:

And said, I'm depressed and

suicidal, and I'm here because Frank

504

:

King said I had to tell someone.

505

:

So that it's very therapeutic.

506

:

Yeah,

507

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: yeah.

508

:

So you can't, my goal,

509

:

Frank king: I can't, my goal

is to save a life a day.

510

:

That's my goal.

511

:

And I assume I've probably

done better than that 'cause

512

:

you don't hear from everybody.

513

:

Oh, yeah.

514

:

But I assume I, hopefully

I've done that or better.

515

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: You

of reiterated the whole point of

516

:

doing this podcast because sharing

your story lightens your burden.

517

:

And if we can offer hope to one person.

518

:

Frank king: Yeah,

519

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: absolutely.

520

:

And that the, to me that is so important

because I know, I see both sides.

521

:

I see the, I see how you can be

drawn to leave and I see how you

522

:

can be drawn to stay, and I've

seen the results of all of that.

523

:

I lost six people before

I was 30 years old.

524

:

So it's, yeah.

525

:

Yeah, it's a lot.

526

:

And it doesn't stop.

527

:

Frank king: That's the no and the aim.

528

:

If somebody may see this and have chronic

suicidal ideation and has just realized

529

:

or watching us right now, that's a thing.

530

:

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping of.

531

:

I met a young woman.

532

:

She and her mom both had it, and

she you thought everybody had it

533

:

because the two of them had it.

534

:

Yeah.

535

:

And I said, and I was, I

think it was same event.

536

:

I finished my speech, I came out

into the lobby, the foyer, and

537

:

a woman got up and followed me

out and she was crying and she.

538

:

Again, had no idea that it had a name, and

she said, is there a medication for that?

539

:

I said there's medication for depression.

540

:

I don't think there's any medication

for chronic suicidal ideation.

541

:

I said here's the thing.

542

:

Just because you have a thought

doesn't mean you have to act on it.

543

:

And my, as a junior psychologist,

not without a degree, a freelance

544

:

psychologist, I believe it's a

coping mechanism for your brain.

545

:

It's your brain saying,

we can solve this problem.

546

:

You're not gonna like it.

547

:

We can solve this.

548

:

So it's just a coping mechanism.

549

:

And you mentioned hope.

550

:

That's what I tell people.

551

:

Look, I'm not a psychiatrist or

a psychologist or a therapist.

552

:

I'm just here to plant seeds of hope.

553

:

I got busted once outside in the foyer

after a talk by a psychologist, and

554

:

he said, look, what qualifies you

to talk about suicide prevention?

555

:

You're not a psychologist, you're not a

psychiatrist, you're not even a therapist.

556

:

And I said I can tell you what

the barrel of my gun tastes like.

557

:

Yeah.

558

:

And Elaine in the silence had followed.

559

:

I said, look, chief, I can go to college.

560

:

I can learn everything you know.

561

:

You will never know everything.

562

:

I know

563

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: that's right.

564

:

Frank king: That's what qualifies me.

565

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

566

:

I know the taste of charcoal both ways.

567

:

Frank king: Yeah.

568

:

So psychologists have their plate.

569

:

Absolutely.

570

:

Had a young come up to Yeah.

571

:

Come up to me after a show.

572

:

At a college, Wafford College, I think.

573

:

And she said, can I give you a hug now,

Elaine, this is right during the Me Too

574

:

movement, the height of it, and everybody

in the room's got a video camera in

575

:

their phone and she's gonna hug me.

576

:

And I could just see the headline,

the paper speaker gropes co-ed.

577

:

Oh God.

578

:

So I leaned over, pushed my

pelvis back as far as I could.

579

:

And gave her a very brotherly hug.

580

:

And when we, stopped hugging,

I said, are you a hugger?

581

:

She goes, no, I'm not a hugger.

582

:

I go what was that?

583

:

She goes I live with mental illness.

584

:

I have a therapist.

585

:

I've been going to her for two

years, and she's well qualified.

586

:

She's got the diplomas on the

wall, but she has no context.

587

:

She said, I'm sitting in the back

of the room listening to you.

588

:

15 minutes in, I'm thinking

this guy is inside my head.

589

:

You did more for me in 45 minutes

than she's done for me in two years.

590

:

Because I have context,

because I understand.

591

:

I hear the same music she hears.

592

:

Yes.

593

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yes.

594

:

I am gonna take this a little offside

for a minute, but I've been making

595

:

this point now since the seventies.

596

:

It is so important because like us

who know what it is on all sides.

597

:

For those who are first responders, for

doctors, for nurses, for police, you have

598

:

to be a patient for 24 to 48 hours, have

all the various pokes and sticks and blood

599

:

Frank king: and what have

600

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: you, so

that you can have some empathy.

601

:

For that meat suit in front

of you, because a lot of times

602

:

that's how they treat people.

603

:

And until you have context,

you can't have full empathy.

604

:

Frank king: Fortunately here in

Eugene and Springfield and the

605

:

county, all the sheriffs and all

the police officers are trained in

606

:

CIT crisis intervention training.

607

:

Where they are trained to, when

they roll up on a situation to

608

:

determine if it's a crime or a crisis.

609

:

Because in the past it was just in

the past it was just take 'em to jail.

610

:

That was just take 'em to jail.

611

:

Now they, is it a substance

abuse disorder issue?

612

:

They'll take him to the proper

facility, male or female.

613

:

They usually have, separate

facility or is it in fact a crime.

614

:

And it's I met a guy who was, he took

over the county medical system, health

615

:

system, mental health system in the

whatever county San Antonio, Texas is in.

616

:

And they were getting ready to build

another jail because it was busting at the

617

:

seams with people who had mental illness

'cause that they just dumped 'em there.

618

:

Yeah, regularly.

619

:

So he had everybody trained

in CIT and within a year.

620

:

And the department was in the

red because of all the, within a

621

:

year and a half or so, they had

decided not to build a new jail.

622

:

As a matter of fact, they were renting

out jail space to other counties

623

:

because they were taking people who

had mental challenges, substance

624

:

abuse, to the proper facility,

not just dumping 'em in the jail.

625

:

So it's, yeah, but it takes some,

you have to get the training.

626

:

You have to understand, yes.

627

:

There was a guy, he gave an example of a

guy they rolled up on a situation, I think

628

:

the, it was a Vietnam vet and he was.

629

:

Sure that the Viet Con were after him

and he's hunkered down behind something.

630

:

He's got a weapon.

631

:

One of the guys who was the police

officer had been to Vietnam, an older

632

:

guy, so he saddled up beside him

and said, Hey, brother, what is it?

633

:

They're surrounding us.

634

:

Yeah, I know.

635

:

Listen, I, I.

636

:

I can get us out of this.

637

:

So he did that participatory

therapy where you don't deny

638

:

what they're seeing or feeling.

639

:

You join them in there, wherever they are.

640

:

And sure enough, that was enough to get

him to calm down and they got into the

641

:

proper facility, but it, but he had to,

it had to be somebody who had the CIT

642

:

training and could relate to what the

guy was going through in terms of war.

643

:

Understood what the guy was seeing.

644

:

Yeah.

645

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: It's interesting

'cause before we came on air, we were

646

:

talking about my father and dementia,

and I had said to you that we follow the

647

:

British protocol from contented dementia,

and it is about getting into their world.

648

:

You follow the expert.

649

:

The expert is the patient.

650

:

They've never been in that world before

and you certainly haven't either.

651

:

So follow them and in.

652

:

A bigger respect.

653

:

That makes so much sense.

654

:

Frank king: Yes.

655

:

Because you're the person, human

nature is to try to reorient them.

656

:

Yeah.

657

:

To what is real.

658

:

Rather do that because that, that

just frustrates 'em and they get,

659

:

that it, it is terribly frustrating.

660

:

You're not in whatever, you're

here, so and but yeah, I think

661

:

it's called participatory therapy.

662

:

Where you just joined and where are you?

663

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah,

664

:

Frank king: I'm in Greensburg

and it's I'll follow you, lead

665

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

I, I'll go where you are.

666

:

But when you see, there's a lot of

dementia around us and when you see

667

:

people constantly correcting someone.

668

:

It's frustrating to be

corrected over and over again.

669

:

Doesn't matter whether

you're right or not.

670

:

It's just frustrating.

671

:

And a gentleman, as we were leaving,

we were at a doctor's appointment, a

672

:

eye appointment for my dad, and we got

into a sort of a rhythm on Mondays.

673

:

My father called Monday morning.

674

:

And it was a very short conversation.

675

:

Nope, there's no paper today.

676

:

Yep.

677

:

I know.

678

:

Nope.

679

:

They're charging the same amount.

680

:

Dad.

681

:

Yep.

682

:

You know how they like to make money.

683

:

He, the paper had stopped three

years ago and this was the Monday

684

:

conversation at the eye doctor.

685

:

It was, he was down to

about 30 seconds of memory.

686

:

So it was, why am I here?

687

:

Who brought me to this

doctor who called them?

688

:

That went over and this gentleman, as

we were leaving, he came up and he said,

689

:

my God, you have a lot of patience.

690

:

I said, actually, I don't.

691

:

Frank king: I just love my father.

692

:

Yeah.

693

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: And

it was no skin off my nose.

694

:

I was there whether or not I was

answering the same questions,

695

:

that didn't really matter.

696

:

I love my father enough to do

that, and I think we have to be

697

:

able to love our neighbor, our.

698

:

Our homeless person, our person

with a mental disorder, as much

699

:

as we love the rest of the people

around us because they're human too.

700

:

Frank king: I have a friend who I

believe has untreated schizo disorder.

701

:

And he was experiencing visual,

auditory, and physical hallucinations.

702

:

Oh my God.

703

:

And he said, do you believe me?

704

:

And I said, I believe.

705

:

That you believe that's

happening and that's all.

706

:

It's important.

707

:

If you believe it's happening.

708

:

Yeah.

709

:

Rather than say, no, nobody's, yeah.

710

:

And I had Elaine, I had the benefit,

Elaine, my second heart surgery I

711

:

had, I've had a valve job twice.

712

:

Yeah.

713

:

The second one, they gave me a

scopolamine patch because of my nausea.

714

:

Had opioids and it was must

have been weapons grade.

715

:

Because I hallucinated.

716

:

I saw six foot tall cartoon

characters with whom I had, Wally

717

:

Coyote and Quickdraw McGraw.

718

:

Full blown conversation.

719

:

My wife said I was operating Abacus

in midair to the point where she said,

720

:

look, if you don't stop hallucinating,

they're not gonna let you leave.

721

:

So we took the patch off, but

it took me a while to come down.

722

:

But it gave me a great deal 'cause

I would've gone to court and

723

:

sworn on everything I'd seen when

I was at, when I was that high.

724

:

It was that real to me.

725

:

So I understand how, now I understand

how, when people see or hear, they

726

:

truly, the brain is a powerful machine.

727

:

So

728

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

it certainly is, my god.

729

:

It certainly is.

730

:

Wow.

731

:

I love that we've covered this because.

732

:

You took me to a whole new

place and I think I might

733

:

have said it, but not enough.

734

:

Thank you very much.

735

:

Oh, you're welcome.

736

:

For giving me another piece

of the puzzle that is me.

737

:

It's been an interesting

puzzle to try and put together.

738

:

There's still a couple of extra

pieces, but what the hell?

739

:

Frank king: I think it's comforting.

740

:

It's comforting to find out it's a thing.

741

:

Yeah.

742

:

What you're experiencing

is actually a thing.

743

:

It has a name.

744

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

745

:

I think that's probably the most important

piece, that it has a name, meaning it's

746

:

not just me, but it's not everybody.

747

:

And, it does take it down a notch.

748

:

From, where you can overblow

things in your own mind when

749

:

you don't know anything.

750

:

And I think there's an

awful lot more to unpack.

751

:

I think there's an awful lot more

to unpack just with you, Frank.

752

:

'cause there's always something else.

753

:

You are an absolute font

of brilliant information.

754

:

And you are funny as hell every time.

755

:

Thank you.

756

:

I've seen you and I have seen

him in real life more than once.

757

:

I think it's just incredible.

758

:

I would like to ask you

to come back, please.

759

:

Absolutely.

760

:

And on that note node, what can

you leave our audience with today?

761

:

One little,

762

:

Frank king: Eight outta 10.

763

:

Yes, this is what I

leave my audiences with.

764

:

Eight out of 10 people who

are suicidal are ambivalent.

765

:

They cannot make up their mind.

766

:

Nine out of 10 give hints in the last

week leading up to an attempt, which

767

:

means you can make a difference.

768

:

You can save a life and you can

do it by doing something as simple

769

:

as what we're doing right here.

770

:

And that is having a conversation.

771

:

So it doesn't, you don't

have to be a mental health

772

:

professional to stop a suicide.

773

:

You just have to care.

774

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: That is so good.

775

:

I actually coined a new hashtag in

the past, I think month and a half.

776

:

It is conversations.

777

:

I want us all to start a conversation

because when we think about it that way,

778

:

we understand how important it can be.

779

:

Frank king: And, you can save somebody

with something very simple, a smile when

780

:

you look 'em in the eye and you smile.

781

:

There's, oh, you got a three o'clock?

782

:

We're at top of the hour.

783

:

Oh, no.

784

:

We'll just have, take this up later.

785

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: We'll

be talking with other people.

786

:

Frank king: Yes.

787

:

Cliffhanger,

788

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: cliff.

789

:

Cliff cliffhanger.

790

:

Yeah.

791

:

Oh, this is wonderful that

you're gonna come back.

792

:

I just think there's an awful lot

more to explore and I think that,

793

:

the more we talk about suicide, the

more we talk about ideation, the

794

:

more likely we are to have these

conversations be part of the day-to-day.

795

:

Instead of being held up on the

high shelf for the difficult topics.

796

:

I wanted to be right there with

everything else at the kitchen table.

797

:

So that we can make sure we

save every single one we can.

798

:

Frank king: Next time we get together,

'cause I've got a TEDx on this.

799

:

The mental, with mental with benefits, the

evolutionary advantages of mental illness.

800

:

Let's talk about the upside

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:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

of mental illness.

802

:

I like that.

803

:

Okay.

804

:

Title is then done for us.

805

:

The upside of mental illness.

806

:

Frank king: Yep.

807

:

You're on.

808

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Okay.

809

:

I have made a note, so all we

have to do now is book you in.

810

:

Frank king: Yeah, send me a calendar link.

811

:

We'll do it again.

812

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

813

:

I cannot thank you enough.

814

:

I will.

815

:

I will be talking to you soon and

I am excited that we're making, I

816

:

think we're making some headway in

this bigger conversations that we're

817

:

having to help people out there.

818

:

I want us to get to a place where we don't

have to quantify the numbers by industry.

819

:

I want the numbers to be so small.

820

:

I want them to be minimal.

821

:

I want them to be nothing.

822

:

Frank king: Yeah, I agree.

823

:

Thank you,

824

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Frank.

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:

I so appreciate you coming.

826

:

We will talk again soon, and in

the meantime, make the very best

827

:

of your today every day, and

we'll see you again next time.

828

:

Yeah, we will definitely see you.

829

:

I don't know what's going

on with my recording here.

830

:

Voiceover: Thank you for being

here for another inspiring episode

831

:

of Suicide Zen Forgiveness.

832

:

We appreciate you tuning in.

833

:

Please subscribe and download on your

favorite service and check out SZF42

834

:

YouTube channel or Facebook community.

835

:

If you have the chance to leave

a five star rating or a review,

836

:

it'd be greatly appreciated.

837

:

Please refer this to a friend you

know who may benefit from the hope

838

:

and inspiration from our guests.

839

:

Suicide Zen Forgiveness was

brought to you by the following

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:

sponsors, TROOL Social Media.

841

:

The digital integration specialists.

842

:

Let them get your rock in page

one in the search results.

843

:

Canada's keynote, humorous, Judy Croon,

motivational speaker, comedian, author,

844

:

and standup coach at Second City.

845

:

Judy has been involved for over

a decade in the City Street

846

:

Outreach program in Toronto.

847

:

Do you have a story to share?

848

:

Do you know someone you think would

be a great guests silence Hero?

849

:

Please go to SZF four two.com

850

:

and for our American listeners,

that's s zf four two.com.

851

:

Thank you for listening.

852

:

To see you again

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Suicide Zen Forgiveness Stories re Suicide Loss | Ideation | Mental Health | Offering Hope |Empathy for All
Suicide Zen Forgiveness Stories re Suicide Loss | Ideation | Mental Health | Offering Hope |Empathy for All
Shattering Stigma Igniting Hope

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About your host

Profile picture for Elaine Lindsay

Elaine Lindsay

A unique blend of finely tuned chaos with a boatload of compassion. An unfiltered speaker, resilience mentor, and podcast host with 50+ years of lived experience navigating suicidal ideation, Pollyanna’s glad game, trauma, chronic illness, and the power of showing up anyway.

Elaine Lindsay🎤 Speaker | Host | Podcaster | 6x Suicide Loss |@TheDarkPollyanna - Opinionated AF
#Youmatter | Let’s start #ConverSAVEtions