Surviving the Unthinkable: A Journey Through Darkness to Light
🎙️ Grief, Survival, and Liberation: A Conversation with Edy Nathan
What if grief wasn’t something to “get over,” but a cave you learn to live inside—until you come out changed?
In this raw and riveting episode, host Elaine Lindsay sits down with Edy Nathan, therapist, storyteller, and author of It’s Grief: The Dance of Self-Discovery through Trauma and Loss. Together, they rip the cover off sanitized ideas of mourning and explore how grief—whether from death, trauma, or sexual violation—can both dismantle and remake us.
Edy shares her own story of loss, the death that shifted her entire axis, and the deeper personal reckonings that came in its wake. She introduces the powerful metaphor of the cave of grief, challenges the myth of closure, and discusses why grief isn’t a timeline—it’s a transformation. The conversation moves into uncharted territory as Edy unpacks the concept of sexual grief, and how even unspoken trauma reshapes our sense of self.
If you’ve ever felt stuck in your sorrow, unseen in your healing, or like no one gets the weight of what you carry—this one’s for you.
đź’Ą What We Talk About:
The cave of grief: why you can’t shortcut transformation
Edy’s personal story of losing the love of her life at 27
Why grief is like a dance—and the tempo is never steady
The misunderstood grief of sexual trauma
Why “moving on” is the wrong framework
The Liberation Protocol and embodied curiosity
đź”— Connect with Edy Nathan:
EdyNathan.com
RAINN – Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network
📞 If You’re in Crisis:
If you're in North America, text 988 for free, 24/7 support.
Elsewhere? Please reach out to your local suicide prevention or mental health hotline. #YouMatter
💬 Subscribe, rate, and share if this episode moved you. It could be the lifeline someone else didn’t know they needed.
Bio
“In her book, Edy Nathan embraces grief in all its forms with clarity, insight and grace. She teaches readers to understand how grief is a tool for personal evolution and integration—and something everyone can master.” – Deepak Chopra
“I appreciate books that are like companions. You want them nearby and available. They have warmth and usefulness but are not shallow. They are friends rather than lifeless objects or heady abstractions. This book can be a companion like that during inevitable moments of grief.” —Thomas Moore, author of Care of the Soul and Ageless Soul
In a culture that does its best to run away from grief whenever possible— even though grief is an inevitable part of life and loss—Edy Nathan provides a practical, sensitive guide to surmounting the pain and regaining your soul.
An experienced psychotherapist and grief expert, Nathan is author of the newly published It’s Grief: The Dance of Self-Discovery Through Trauma and Loss (As I Am Press, July 2018). The book unravels the complex world of grief and helps to transform the dark mystery into one of life’s most important teachers.
While other therapists emphasize universal quick fixes to “get over it,” Nathan says it doesn’t work that way. Like a fingerprint, everyone’s experience of trauma, abuse, or the loss of a loved one is unique, and in truth, you never really get over the resulting grief but learn to integrate it into your life.
To that end, Nathan offers a comprehensive toolbox to aid the process—and you can take what you need. She speaks candidly from her own personal experiences as one who has danced with grief in many forms from a young age. Her ideas are not theoretical!
Grief, trauma and loss can strike in a moment, today, or from a long past memory retrieved—and disrupt the norms in every part of your life. Edy Nathan’s practical insights can help you get your life back—even though the world you live in has forever changed.
Websites
Website
Website #2
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/experts/edy-nathan
Website #3
https://medium.com/@edynathan%20
Socials
Transcript
Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Suicide,
Zen forgiveness, shattering, stigma
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:Igniting Hope I'm Elaine Lindsay, and
my mission is to end the silence, the
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:stigma, the shame surrounding suicide.
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:And mental health.
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:We talk about the hard stuff
because asking for help should
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:be as easy as ordering a coffee.
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:Here we share real stories from
those who've lost someone survived
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:an attempt live with ideation or
battle mental health challenges.
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:. Why?
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:Because sharing your
burden, lightens the load
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:note suicide, Zen forgiveness.
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:The podcast is for education quality.
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:Some of the subject matter could be
triggering for those who are either
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:grieving or having mental health problem.
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:If you are in North America, you
can text 9 88 for immediate support.
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:If you're elsewhere, please reach
out to your local suicide hotline.
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:Or mental health service, you matter.
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:My aim is to normalize the
conversation so you feel safe
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:enough to speak up and ask for help.
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:So now let's start the show
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:Hello there.
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:It's good to be back.
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:I am Elaine Lindsay, and
my guest today is Edy.
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:Nathan, thank you so
much for joining us, Edy.
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:Edy Nathan: Elaine, it's
a pleasure to be here.
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:Thanks for having me.
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:I'm very excited to
have this conversation.
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:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: I had looked
at, I think I saw you on a different
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:podcast at one point, which is why
I reached out because I thought
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:. This is the type of guest I
definitely would like our audience
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:to be able to interact with.
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:Okay, without further ado,
why don't you give us a little
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:something about you and what you do?
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:Edy Nathan: What I'd love for you
all to know is I'm a storyteller
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:and grief has many stories, and
so this is how I love to present.
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:Around a group, around a topic that is so
hard and yet such an incredible teacher.
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:So I've written something
and this is for you.
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:The cave awaits.
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:It's dark, it's hurts.
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:It's a place no one chooses.
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:I have a love hate relationship with that.
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:Cave of grief.
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:Being in it means I'm facing a loss.
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:Being in it means daring to live with it.
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:Evoking the depths of my souls.
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:Your souls work.
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:This dark place offers you and me a chance
to meet the shadows of grief and mourning.
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:Given the chance, it can transform
you and me from a stuck state of being
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:into and going into metamorphosis.
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:Knowing the pain is one thing,
believing it will change.
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:That is hard to imagine.
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:This is what the work of grief for
me and loss and trauma is all about.
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:I want to believe that.
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:I offer a new way to think about tangling
with this potent adversary, but really
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:it's based on each individual and no one
experiences it in exactly the same way.
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:It's like our fingerprint, i.
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:It's tangling with this potent
adversary and yeah, do I have
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:a little bit of schooling?
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:I went to NYU and Fordham and I'm a sex
therapist from the University of Michigan.
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:And but what I like to do is talk about
the things that we don't wanna talk about,
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:but do so in a way that's not scary.
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:And yet it's grounded.
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:And I'm in the process
of writing another book.
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:The first book was on grief and it's
called, it's Grief, the Dance of
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:Self-Discovery through Trauma and Loss.
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:And I'll talk about the dance and I
believe that we have the power all
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:along to be the change agents we
need to be as we meet grief head on.
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:Thank you, Elaine.
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:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh,
that was absolutely beautiful.
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:Thank you.
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:Wow.
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:Turning, excuse me, turning things
on its head a little for me.
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:I never quite thought of it that way.
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:You are right.
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:Grief is absolutely
different for all of us.
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:And timeframes and all
of that are so different.
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:We'll start.
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:I like.
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:To have people always start with
how they got where they are now.
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:So I'm going to turn it over to
you and you can give us a look into
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:your first walk into that cave.
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:Edy Nathan: So I think the cave
has many different chances to
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:invite us in, even though we
really don't want to be invited in.
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:And, it it really does.
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:Start, probably with birth when that
umbilical cord gets cut and what happens
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:soon after that and how somehow grief
is about cutting that umbilical cord
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:over and over again, and trying to
find life beyond the cutting of it.
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:And so I would say that.
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:I came into this world
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:seeing and knowing things that I don't
know how I knew them or how why I even
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:experienced them, but the family that
I was born into didn't know what to
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:do with this young kid who wanted to
save the animals and take the home.
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:Folks home and it was like
no, edEdy, you can't do that.
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:You just can't do that.
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:And I see you're laughing, but
truly, like I had to unlearn what
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:seemed to come so naturally to me.
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:And truly that was first experience with
grief because I think grief is about
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:the loss of something that you can't.
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:Imagine being able to get back and
that loss started then because I had
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:to reframe at those tender, that tender
age of two, three, I had to reframe how
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:I was in the world and I learned that
early on, and, our losses can occur
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:certainly because we've lost a loved one.
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:And at that tender age, I
had not lost a loved one.
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:But somehow I had lost myself, and
what I've learned is that it is the
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:losing of the self that makes it so
much harder to cope with the loss of a
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:loved one when we're faced with that.
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:So when I was 27, my, the love of
my life, the one who taught me about
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:love, Paul sadly died and transitioned.
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:And he was much older than myself,
but he taught me about love.
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:And as a result of losing him
at 27, everything that I hadn't.
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:Dealt with that I swallowed from, dealing
with, mistreatment and a abuses of
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:different kinds, what I call now predatory
events that happened to many folks, that
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:grief actually summoned up all the things
I had not yet dealt with at that young
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:and ripe age of 27 and hence changed the
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:entire trajectory of my life.
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:Paul and I were, we acted and we would,
I was gonna go into the world, the cosmos
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:of, as a trainer and teach in, like
environments where, they needed trainers,
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:whether it was executives or the likes.
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:And I just said, no.
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:This calling right now is stronger
than me and there was no one to talk
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:to at 27 because at 27, Elaine, what
was going on was that the people I
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:was meeting kept saying, but you're
young and you'll meet someone.
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:And that just frankly made
me wanna fall apart even more
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:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:
that I can feel your grief.
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:As you, you talk and it really
was the love of your life.
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:Yeah.
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:It's hard when you witness someone's grief
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:at the same time that
you witnessed their joy.
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:Edy Nathan: So well said.
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:Thank you for that.
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:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.
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:Oh, you are so welcome.
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:Very obvious to me.
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:You just lit up.
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:Yeah.
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:Wow.
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:Wow.
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:I am so sorry that you lost him.
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:It must have completely
shifted you off your axis.
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:Edy Nathan: That's exactly what it did.
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:I've never thought of it in terms of
that, but whatever access I did have and
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:access to the access felt completely lost.
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:Yeah.
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:And yeah, and it was having to
I could say rebuild, but truly.
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:Building something and trying to find
the right the right equipment to help me.
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:Internal equipment, emotional equipment,
spiritual equipment emotional equipment
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:to, to help me build something that was
going to look brand new and and take it.
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:Take, grow it and nurture it as also
growing and developing myself, I had
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:to face where was I stuck and who were
my allies, who were gonna be my allies,
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:who, you know, who were my superheroes.
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:And then.
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:Certainly, what kind of
metamorphosis was I looking for?
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:And I actually have a journal and I, those
are the three prompts in that journal.
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:And it goes with the book.
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:It's grief.
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:And I learned that it was a dance
that the more I tried to put it, push
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:it away, the feelings of the grief
the excruciating pain, the sadness.
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:I was not finding solace
in pushing it away.
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:I was just going deeper and
deeper into the depths of despair.
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:And this cave the innermost
cave is actually it's Joseph
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:Campbell, the hero Shero journey.
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:Hero's journey, but I call it hero shero.
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:And.
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:It's what that journey is about, and
we are forever in the journey, is that
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:something happens that forever changes
your life and you can't go back.
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:And as much as you want to
go back, you can't go back.
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:And it feels like an injustice.
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:It truly feels like a social injustice.
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:But the reality is that there
are times when you can't go back.
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:You can't go back into the womb,
they can't stuff you back in and,
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:you can't rekindle the umbilical cord
and nor can, could I bring back Paul?
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:Yeah.
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:And.
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:I then realized that the work was
about learning how to kindle the
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:love, and that was where the cave
comes in because you, you go through
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:this kind of journey in the cave.
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:This in Innermost Cave is a place
where you meet your obstacles,
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:you meet the challenges and.
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:It's a, it's cyclical.
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:You go in, you come out,
you're forever changed.
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:You decide who are your allies
who is not your ally, but who
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:might be your best teachers and
sometimes it might be your enemies.
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:So grief was certainly
nothing that I welcomed.
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:On the other hand, it was something
that slowly but surely, if I partner
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:with, partnered with it, it could be.
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:A teacher and it could
push me beyond realms.
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:I could never have imagined
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:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: You've
blown me away because it's
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:such a different take on grief.
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:Yeah.
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:In the way you say grief as a teacher,
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:you are actually looking for.
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:I wanna say the bright
lights the good inside.
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:All of that.
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:Very often when people say grief
is a teacher, they're talking about
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:loss and hurt and lack rather than
anything with a positive spin.
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:So that's a really.
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:Important piece there.
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:Edy Nathan: Yeah.
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:Thank you.
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:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:
Timeframe around 27,
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:how long did it take you to get far
enough along this new road that, I
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:don't wanna say felt in charge, but
that you felt you were owning the road?
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:Edy Nathan: I pause because I want to
answer you as precisely as I can, and
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:in some ways that 27-year-old was very
old and in some ways that 27-year-old
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:was very young, and the young part of me.
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:I talk about this in hindsight, some of
it because there were, paths that I chose
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:that were the right paths for the young
27-year-old, not for the wise 27-year-old.
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:And I married about two years after he
died and married a man who was raising
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:his two almost teenage girls on his own.
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:And I fell in love with the
family and with his humor and.
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:With the girls who were smart and
fun and funny and who just took my
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:heart and show again, continue to
show me love or what love was and.
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:They were into theater, and so I
could like, enjoy being being an
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:advocate and a cheerleader and
watching them blossom and bloom.
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:And their father was also a writer and
very talented and a creative, and I.
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:I probably got married way too soon.
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:I didn't do the necessary work I needed
to do, but I also needed another kind
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:of love that would save me selfishly.
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:And I think that we worked as a
family for as long as we could.
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:It is now many years later.
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:And those girls are women and
they are married and they have
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:families and they are both writers
and creatives and amazing women.
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:And I was closer in age to them pretty
much than I was to their father.
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:And remained friends with their father
as well and participated in weddings
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:and, but what I would say though is that
the part of me that had the traumatic
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:awareness that arose when I was 27.
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:Though I awoke, I was awakened to it.
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:I didn't really start to grapple with its
power and its potency until much later.
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:And I think that's where I.
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:The, I went back to school.
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:I got a couple of master's degrees and
then became a sex therapist and a sex
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:educator because what I started to realize
is that the grief that is sometimes
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:the most difficult to deal with, the
loss of a loved one for sure, but it is
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:often further complicated if there are.
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:Unresolved.
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:It doesn't get resolved.
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:There are events or experiences that
have happened that have not yet been
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:honored or dealt with and looked at.
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:And so my work as a, I became a therapist.
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:As my work as a clinician.
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:My, my thesis was on grief and what
started out to be seven phases of
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:grief has now turned into 11 phases.
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:And that's what I write about in my book
and realized that, oh, this is a dance.
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:It's not something you
get through or get over.
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:I.
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:I don't have a lot of things
that I kept from Paul, but I
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:did keep his Timex watch that.
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:I keep in a little pouch, a little
gray pouch, and every time I just
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:need a little bit of Paul energy.
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:I wind it up and we don't
know from winding necessarily,
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:but it goes tick tick, tick.
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:And I feel his presence.
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:And I remember the watch on his wrist.
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:And it is very much part of knowing
that this is definitely a dance and it
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:doesn't end, it just changes over time.
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:And so all of this information was a
partnership so that instead of wanting
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:to just push it away, which just made
all of the pain and the anxiety and
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:the crumbling in the middle of a.
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:Floor and tears made it much
more doable and livable.
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:When I said, okay, you know what?
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:I can't fight you anymore.
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:I'm going to need to learn
about you and be curious.
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:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Wow.
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:I've always considered grief
to be like a train we get on.
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:And like you said, sometimes we get off.
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:But we get back on.
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:That's right.
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:And others join us.
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:That's right.
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:But it's once you are on that train, you
don't ever like to leave it permanently.
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:It is now how you move through
the world is on the train.
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:So I really like the concept of the
cave and the revisiting because.
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:I believe you have to get to a place in
your grief journey where you internally
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:understand that this is for life.
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:Edy Nathan: That's right.
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:That's right.
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:And sadly, the people who want to
help or make it better will say.
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:Some of the most
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:helpless statements they can make.
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:Yeah.
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:And the helplessness is when
are you gonna get over it?
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:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.
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:Edy Nathan: But it's for them.
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:It's not about you
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:or you're young.
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:You're gonna get married
again, don't worry.
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:Yeah.
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:You have your whole life ahead of you.
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:And it's that's not how it feels
to me when I'm in a puddle in the
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:middle of the floor crying, not able
to put on a pair of pants because
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:I've eaten so much that nothing fits
because I was stuffing my grief down.
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:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah,
and it's odd how people don't.
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:Realize you don't wanna replace people.
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:No.
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:If your grandparents die, you
don't go out and get new ones.
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:Sorry.
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:I can be very, no, it's literal at times.
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:Yeah.
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:But yeah it's yeah I always
found it odd the way people were
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:like, okay, let's move on now.
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:It's no, that there is no MO
moving on without you, your people.
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:And you'll find in many cultures
they lauded the stories and taking
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:our people that we've lost with us.
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:I have.
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:Grandchildren.
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:The youngest are 11 and eight,
and my grandmother died in:
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:So they have no concept of her or
they should have no concept of her.
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:She is part of family
dinners, as is everyone else.
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:We've lost.
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:Because they're part of our family and a
as a Brit, that's how I was brought up.
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:Sure.
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:Because someone's passed
doesn't mean we dispose of them.
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:Edy Nathan: Right.
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:That's right.
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:And and we don't forget, but it
may be that people around us.
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:Might want us to forget, but this
is not ever about forgetting.
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:No.
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:It's about learning how
to remember peacefully.
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:That's
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:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:
That's so well put.
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:And there are a lot of people too.
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:It's not that they want us to
forget, it's, they're afraid if they
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:remind us, they're somehow putting
us back in, in a place of pain.
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:Edy Nathan: So that's a,
an interesting statement of
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:they're putting us back in pain.
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:What do you mean by that?
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:I,
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:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: We had
a lot of losses in a relatively
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:short time, and certain people.
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:It's like they're afraid to say the
person's name or any of the people's
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:name because they're going to, it's
like throwing somebody in a pool again
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:who doesn't really wanna swim anymore.
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:You are tossing that person in and
they did not necessarily wanna go in.
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:I don't think a lot of people realize
that for the most part you will.
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:Take the pain of loss because the
memories are more important to savor.
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:Does that make sense?
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:Edy Nathan: Totally.
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:Absolutely.
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:Yeah.
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:Savoring the memories actually
means that you're not pushing.
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:Grief away.
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:You're partnering with it,
you're dancing with it.
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:And it, and that's the thing
is that it's like dance.
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:Dance is like a joyful thing.
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:I don't know.
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:Yes.
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:I'm not gonna certainly
Paul is not coming back.
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:My parents are not gonna
be returning anytime soon.
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:I, these people have left.
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:This, the this world as we know it,
as I know it, and yet I want to keep
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:their memory and my memory of them.
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:Alive and having a living memory
is part of my rootedness to
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:the legacy and the imprint that
they have made on me in my life.
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:So that's the conversation is, okay,
so you could never talk about your
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:loved one, but how does that work?
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:And doesn't that then cut off some part?
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:Of your story, and if you stop
talking about the people who've
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:contributed to who you are, and it's,
no, we're not talking about that
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:person or that person or that person.
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:What are you left with?
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:Because our histories are the people we
have loved and lost, and even frankly,
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:some of the parts of the self that
we have lost sometimes along the way.
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:We need to remember the parts
that we've lost and have
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:conversations with our loved ones.
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:Have conversations even if we
feel that we've lost a role.
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:Okay, so if my parents are
have transitioned, does that
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:mean I'm no longer a daughter?
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:No, I'm always gonna be a daughter.
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:So how?
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:How can I continue to be
in the role of daughter?
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:How on Mother's Day, on Father's
Day, I will buy them a card.
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:I will write in that card.
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:I will celebrate my mother's birthday
and by doing something that she enjoyed.
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:Honoring her.
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:I will wind Paul's Timex
watch, I will talk about them.
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:I, my husband never met my mother.
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:He did meet my father and I will,
I, my current husband and happily
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:married and in love and I will, I.
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:My husband knows about my mother and knows
that she was wonderful and fashionable
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:and a runway model, and that this very
well dressed woman could be kooky and
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:at one point entered into a public
swimming pool where her grandchildren
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:were swimming and fully clothed,
walked in because they say, grandma,
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:would you come swim with us?
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:And she did.
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:I've just shared this story.
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:I have goosebumps.
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:You've gotten to know a little
bit about my mom, Elizabeth,
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:and it's part of who I am too.
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:Yeah.
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:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Okay.
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:I just thinking it as you were saying
that about us leaving out these,
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:this person and that person, your
history becomes Swiss cheese and.
394
:You won't have any stories eventually.
395
:That's right there.
396
:There won't be a past and
not to get too out there.
397
:But what is it they say about history?
398
:If we forget it, we're
doomed to repeat it.
399
:That goes for the good stuff too.
400
:That's right.
401
:If you forget all the good things.
402
:Oh I wouldn't wanna see this world without
being able to share the stories of yes.
403
:Some of the quirkier things,
404
:Edy Nathan: The quirky things.
405
:And she would've loved that I shared
this story and giggled about it.
406
:And, I also want to share that, a lot
of times there are assumptions that
407
:you had a good relationship with, your
parents or, with an aunt or an uncle or
408
:a grandparent, or even a friend who you
who may have been a really good friend
409
:at one time, and then you parted ways
and not all relationships are good.
410
:And there's an expectation
that you're gonna mourn.
411
:Appropriately, whatever that means.
412
:And there are women and men who were
in pretty horrific relationships and
413
:partnerships and feel relief and feel
safety for the first time in their lives.
414
:Yeah.
415
:And so I write, I also write
about that in, in this book.
416
:Because I often think we, we have
an assumption about what grief
417
:needs to look like and people I.
418
:Sometimes feel they have to fake it,
and I'm not talking about faking it.
419
:If there was really, if you are
relieved I hope that you have
420
:someone you can actually tell the
truth to because that's okay too.
421
:It's okay to say, I'm not
gonna be hurt anymore.
422
:I'm not gonna be watched over
anymore like in a dangerous way.
423
:I'm not gonna be hit anymore.
424
:We've got a lot of people who,
sadly continue to live in homes
425
:where there's domestic violence.
426
:I just want to say that there
is, that goes on and that relief
427
:is also can be part of grief.
428
:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: That,
that's a such a good point.
429
:'cause it's not something we think about.
430
:No.
431
:At
432
:all.
433
:But I can definitely relate to
that with a friend and yeah.
434
:Total relief.
435
:Yeah.
436
:Yeah.
437
:Edy Nathan: And if you
know someone who you know.
438
:Is in that kind of situation, you
certainly don't want to, come in and
439
:say, oh, you must be thrilled about this.
440
:Yeah.
441
:On the other hand, you can also
say something to the effect of,
442
:I just want you to know I'm here.
443
:And not everyone grieves the
same way and however you grieve.
444
:I'm right there with you.
445
:And it's just permission.
446
:That's all it is.
447
:It's not asking questions.
448
:I'm here to talk.
449
:And it just doesn't come in
with an expectation of the
450
:shoulds of grief and grieving.
451
:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.
452
:Yeah.
453
:We have to get rid of the shoulds
because it can be very different.
454
:Edy Nathan: That's right.
455
:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: For everybody.
456
:Yeah.
457
:Edy Nathan: That's, that's right.
458
:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: And I will
often say to someone, offer my condolences
459
:and I will often say, I, I don't have
adequate words, for, to comfort you.
460
:It just know my heart sits with yours.
461
:Because sometimes I think it's
worse to perhaps say the wrong
462
:thing than to offer something.
463
:That's a little less specific
because you're not quite sure
464
:Edy Nathan: That's right.
465
:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: That's right.
466
:How it will be received.
467
:Edy Nathan: That's right.
468
:And I have a I have a lot of diagrams
and exercises in the book, but one
469
:of the diagrams are two circles and
one circle says above it before,
470
:and the other circle says after.
471
:And you're.
472
:Like the.in
473
:the middle, okay.
474
:Of each circle.
475
:And this is the friends you had
and families you had before and
476
:their degree of closeness to you.
477
:And you could spread them out,
within the circumference or
478
:outside of the circle frankly.
479
:And then after and see how
these relationships changed.
480
:It's possible that someone that was way
on the outside all of a sudden comes in,
481
:that someone who was very close to you.
482
:Drops out, drops by the wayside.
483
:Just maybe can't handle it.
484
:Maybe doesn't know what to do, maybe
is in their own grief reaction to a
485
:point where they feel lost themselves.
486
:And this is a wonderful exercise to do
every six months and to see what's been
487
:the changing landscape of the people in
your life before and the people after.
488
:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:
Oh that's really good.
489
:It would actually work
for divorce as well.
490
:Edy Nathan: Oh it absolutely,
it works for divorce.
491
:It works for it works for
certainly the death of a loved one.
492
:Yeah.
493
:Yeah.
494
:And you fill in whatever that means.
495
:It's also good if someone is.
496
:All of a sudden awake and aware to
a traumatic imprint that they have
497
:experienced and that it's been swallowed.
498
:And there is grief for people who, and
it's often not seen as grief, it's seen
499
:as anxiety or depression or or, you're
dysregulated and from having experienced
500
:a sexually traumatic predatory event.
501
:And what is often missed is the grief
reaction and what happens in this grief?
502
:And I coined a term called
the sexual grief effect.
503
:And this sexual grief effect is the
natural response to a predatory event or
504
:even a developmental experience, which
being unwanted as a child or having a
505
:first bad sexual experience that these
affect us and create grief in our lives.
506
:And really changes like the way we are
in the world and grief can change it
507
:and the sexual grief can change it.
508
:And it's a just a different lens.
509
:And what, what happens is you
often feel like you're stuck and
510
:you're trapped, and it's not.
511
:So much the cave where you're looking
at, like the stuff that's gotten in the
512
:way, your obstacles it's actually deeper.
513
:You almost feel like you're
imprisoned by the sexual grief,
514
:which is hard, really hard.
515
:And or grief and that it's holding you and
stopping you from living, from thriving.
516
:And there are people who, and if any
of you are out there, I know that
517
:this is hard and that I have developed
what I'm, and it's not out there yet.
518
:What I've called the Liberation Protocol
and that first strategy and task of the
519
:Liberation Protocol is something called I.
520
:Embodied curiosity.
521
:So to continue to go into the depths
of your curiosity, what's going on?
522
:Where am I feeling this in my body?
523
:How is it getting expressed?
524
:Am I overeating, undereating?
525
:Am I sleeping too much?
526
:Am I not sleeping enough?
527
:Am I being hyperactive?
528
:Am I in denial?
529
:Am I protesting?
530
:Am I walking around just ready to.
531
:My fuse is just ready to go off,
and that's where the embodied
532
:curiosity begins, and it's part
of the Liberation Protocol.
533
:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:
Oh, and all of that.
534
:Is in your new book?
535
:Edy Nathan: It's in the new
book, which is not yet out there.
536
:I'm in the process of shopping it around
for a publisher and I can only hope that
537
:after the the revision of this last.
538
:This first chapter and new proposal
that someone's gonna pick it up because
539
:it's and the working title, if anybody's
curious, is Dare to Live Liberate the Self
540
:from Sexually Traumatic Events and Thrive.
541
:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: That's
542
:the hell of a title.
543
:I.
544
:I think it's really necessary.
545
:Edy Nathan: Thank you.
546
:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: To
be honest, I'm surprised there
547
:hasn't been a book before now
548
:because of the trauma and when you think
of sexual predators, I think the first
549
:word for me that comes to mind is loss.
550
:Yeah.
551
:Yeah.
552
:So grief to me would only be natural.
553
:Edy Nathan: That's right.
554
:And the grief is intense.
555
:And you know what results after a sexually
traumatic predatory event, what occurs
556
:is that sense of the personal identity
and your social identity and your sexual
557
:identity really get, impacted greatly.
558
:The same thing happens with grief,
but the difference is the grief
559
:after the loss of a loved one.
560
:But the grief after the loss of
a loved one is very different.
561
:It's similar in that there's grief.
562
:It's very different because that is
natural and it's part of the life cycle,
563
:whereas the grief that occurs after a
sexually traumatic predatory event or a
564
:developmental experience is uninvited.
565
:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah, I
was gonna say, and to me there's no
566
:upside and upside's the wrong word.
567
:Grief allows for savoring the memories.
568
:In this case, there are
no memories to savor.
569
:There isn't a.
570
:A silver lining, if you will.
571
:Edy Nathan: So I'll tell you
what the silver lining is, okay?
572
:And it has to do with survivorship.
573
:And that is the silver lining.
574
:And I, we talk about survivors,
we talk about going from
575
:victimhood to victor to survivor.
576
:I think sometimes when we use language
over and over again, it's the same words.
577
:Sometimes we become immune to those words.
578
:So I've been playing around with the idea
survivalist and what is a survivalist.
579
:But they're out in the middle of
a forest trying to figure out, how
580
:the heck am I gonna get outta here?
581
:And they're naked and they're
afraid and they're like I, I.
582
:And they figure out they figure
out the tools that they need
583
:to get out or to survive.
584
:And so I like to think of people who have.
585
:Live to tell their story of what
happened to them and remember it and
586
:begin to share it with themselves first,
but one, they're on the beginning.
587
:Two, knowing how they're going to.
588
:Live with it and live beyond it.
589
:And not only be it, but be more than
it, though it forever changes you.
590
:I'm a survivalist and
happened when I was nine.
591
:And yet what?
592
:I know is that if you can start to
feel that there's a way to break
593
:out of the prison that got formed
because of that event or experience
594
:that that you start to get, you start
to break out of that prison and.
595
:Yeah, you grapple with the cave
for sure because something happened
596
:to you that forever changed you,
you find an in internal voice
597
:that you've never had before.
598
:And there are wonderful,
like writing, writing groups.
599
:There's something called a WA and and
also the work of Mary Simmerling, who Dr.
600
:Mary Simmerling, who's a poet,
and wrote a poem that went viral.
601
:She is a, an amazing poet and philosopher
and her, what you were wearing,
602
:and you can fill in the blanks, but
what that does is it enables, it o
603
:offers people to have a conversation.
604
:And I think that
conversation is essential.
605
:And yes, we've been talking about
grief from loss and the losses, and
606
:now another level of grief that.
607
:One in, one in one in three
women and one in nine or 10 men.
608
:It's very under reported
with men and with women.
609
:So I say those numbers hesitantly, but
you can certainly find more information
610
:on a a website called Rain, R-A-I-N-N.
611
:And sadly.
612
:Too many people lose their lives to
suicide as a result of these events
613
:and experiences that I'm talking about.
614
:So I think that having this
conversation here is important.
615
:Given the topic of your podcast here.
616
:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:
I cannot thank you enough.
617
:I think this is one of the
most important topics we have.
618
:Because it is so under-reported
and because it is so prevalent,
619
:and I think the more we know, the more
we talk about these things, the more
620
:that we can perhaps stop some of it.
621
:Yes, that's right.
622
:That's right.
623
:I think that's super important.
624
:I thank you so much,
Edy, everything today.
625
:You you put a whole new spin on
grief for me that I'm gonna sit
626
:with for a bit the piece on.
627
:Sexual grief, I think
is so deeply important.
628
:We'd love to have you back when
the book is ready and we can
629
:Thank you.
630
:We can talk about that as well.
631
:Edy Nathan: Thank you so much.
632
:Oh
633
:My pleasure to be back.
634
:Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: I
see just below you'll note that
635
:I have two of Edy's websites.
636
:You can go and check those out,
all the other information, and
637
:I will ask Edy for the link for
Rainn and for that poem as well.
638
:Yes,
639
:absolutely.
640
:By the doctor and we'll make
sure that'll be below in all
641
:the show notes and information.
642
:This is a lot to process today
and I am ever so grateful.
643
:I'm Elaine Lindsay, my guest, Edy
Nathan has joined us today and she said
644
:she'll come back, which is awesome.
645
:I'd like you, our audience, to make
the most of your today, every day,
646
:and we're gonna see you next time.
647
:Bye for now.
648
:Voiceover: Thank you for being
here for another inspiring episode
649
:of Suicide Zen Forgiveness.
650
:We appreciate you tuning in.
651
:Please subscribe and download on your
favorite service and check out SZF42
652
:YouTube channel or Facebook community.
653
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a five star rating or review,
654
:it'd be greatly appreciated.
655
:Please refer this to a friend you
know, who may benefit from the hope
656
:and inspiration from our guests.
657
:Suicide Zen Forgiveness was
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658
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659
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660
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661
:and standup coach at Second City.
662
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663
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664
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you great when you're just starting a
665
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666
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667
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668
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669
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670
:Voiceover: Do you have a story to share?
671
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672
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673
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674
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