Episode 32

When a Rainbow Speaks: A Father's Journey Through Grief and Spirit

9 32

When a Rainbow Speaks: A Father's Journey Through Grief and Spirit

Show Notes

 In this conversation, Dave Roberts unpacks the raw terrain of grief following the death of his daughter Janine. From addiction counseling to death education, Dave's life has been steeped in holding space for suffering. But when grief knocked at his own door, he found himself unprepared—until spiritual connection, unexpected mentors, and the magic of a double rainbow cracked open a new worldview. This episode is for anyone navigating deep loss, seeking meaning, and wondering if it's possible to feel joy again after devastation.

Dave Roberts didn’t sign up to be a grief expert—he was a guy trained to treat addiction. But when his daughter Janine died at 18, everything he believed about life, death, and healing shattered. What came next was a hard-fought journey through spiritual connection, ancestral healing, and finding peace without closure. In this raw and luminous episode, Dave joins Elaine to talk about fatherhood, the grief train, and why remembering isn’t pathology—it’s love.

💥 What We Talk About:

  • Dave’s 27-year career in addiction counseling
  • The devastating loss of his daughter Janine
  • Meeting Rev. Patty and learning to communicate with spirit
  • Integrating spirituality with psychology
  • Healing ancestral wounds
  • Redefining masculinity and grief expression
  • The power of critical thinking and soul-level understanding

🔗 How to Connect with Dave Roberts:

  • Book: When the Psychology Professor Met the Minister
  • Website/contact info:

📞 If You’re in Crisis:

If you're in North America, text 988 for free, 24/7 support.

Elsewhere? Please reach out to your local suicide prevention or mental health hotline. #YouMatter

💬 Subscribe, rate, and share if this episode moved you. It could be the lifeline someone else didn’t know they needed. #ConverSAVEtions

Bio

Links & Socials




Suicide Zen Forgiveness Stories re Suicide Loss | Ideation | Mental Health | Offering Hope |Empathy for All website

©2025-2018 Elaine Lindsay SZF42.com All rights reserved.

https://suicide-zen-forgiveness.captivate.fm/episode/when-a-rainbow-speaks-a-fathers-journey-through-grief-and-spirit

Elaine Lindsay

Explicit

Transcript
Speaker:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: When

moving forward seems too much.

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When you feel totally out

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of touch

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Hope is seeping out the

door you find yourself.

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Curled on the floor.

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The thoughts swirl around

all jumbled and messed.

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Why is this brain so darkly obsessed?

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I've secrets.

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I've never confessed.

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Haven't told the soul, I am depressed.

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A gentle whisper through the the pain,

“Remember, rainbows follow rain.”.

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Breathe deeply, hold on tight, Your

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hope will return, shining

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bright.

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Embrace the now, release the past,

In forgiveness, peace will last.

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You matter deeply, you are not alone.

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Reach out, let your strength be shown.

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Hello.

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Hello.

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I am so glad to be back, and today

I'm with my guest, Dave Roberts.

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Thank you so much for joining me, Dave.

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Dave Roberts: You're quite welcome.

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Elaine.

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Thank you for inviting me.

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I've been looking forward

to our conversation.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah, me too.

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One quick word to the audience.

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We're still getting a little

used to the new intro.

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I.

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I have to say the song is called

You Matter, and I wrote it.

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And it's bizarre to hear

something that you've written.

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I'm not a songwriter, definitely not a

singer or any of that, but it came out of

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what now amounts to 50 years of experience

dealing in the suicide awareness space.

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And it means a lot to me.

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So I just thought I, I would share

that I'm gonna have Dave give us a

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little bit of background information

in who he is and what he does, and I

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think you'll find that fascinating.

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Before we get into his story.

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As per usual, we're just gonna

go ahead and have a conversation.

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I really am glad to have you here,

Dave, tell us a bit about you.

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Dave Roberts: Elaine what seemed to

be like a previous lifetime ago I was

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an addictions professional working

in an inpatient substance abuse

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treatment center in upstate New York.

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The majority of the clients we dealt with.

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Were not only had addiction issues

to multiple drugs, but also had

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mental health issues as well, such as

depression, schizophrenia generalized

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anxiety disorder, you name it.

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So we were dealing with clients

who also had a coexisting mental

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health diagnosis, which made

treatment that much more challenging.

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I worked for, as I mentioned,

for 27 years and retired in July.

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Of 2012 when I was 57 and had 30 years

into, to both state and county retirement.

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Prior to retirement, I began

working as an adjunct instructor

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at Utica University where I was

teaching the psychology department.

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I'm now an adjunct professor.

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I have been there for 22 years

and currently teach primarily

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care of the human spirit,

death, dying, and bereavement.

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Impact of addiction on children

and families, and recently a

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family stress and coping course.

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So primarily courses I teach of a

clinical nature and also a course that's

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related to the study of phonology.

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I, a lot of your listeners might wonder

how did I jump from addiction to death?

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Yeah.

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Typically I tell my students and I

tell anybody that I speak with who

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ask me that question that I did not.

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The field of by, by choice.

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Nobody wakes up and says, I'm

gonna study death for the of my.

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Most of society wants

to avoid at all costs.

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Yeah.

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And for me, I never thought that

would ever be part of the equation

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that I would be dealing, primarily in

a service capacity with individuals

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who've had challenges with loss.

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Yeah.

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The universe.

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It doesn't give you the choice to say

which challenges you're gonna deal with.

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It just unfolds it.

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And our choice is we either

deal with those challenges or

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we end up dying emotionally in

a physical, in physical death.

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If we don't, so I am no, with

that, I'm no stranger to grief.

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I, in my 70 years of life, I have danced

with death since I've been five years

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old, since the time that my father left.

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Having my fa, having my mother

raised me as an only child to I.

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The loss of my daughter's best friend

about, it'd be a year in July due to a car

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accident and the loss of my, my mother the

maternal grandmother and aunt who raised

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me, numerous friends, pets, you name it.

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I have danced with grief since,

for as long as I can remember.

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However, the one loss that really

just shattered my worldview.

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And really caused me to take pause of

everything that I stood for, my values, my

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beliefs, my priorities is the transition,

I call it transition as opposed to death

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or passing on, or walking on as is.

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As is in the Native American culture.

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And it's however you conceptualize death.

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But the transition of my 18-year-old

daughter, Janine, over 22 years

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ago as a result of a rare and

aggressive form of cancer, and she.

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10 months after giving birth to her

first and her only child, and my first

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grandchild her significant other, and her

and my granddaughter, Brianna lived with

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us for four years because it was a promise

that she made teammate to Janine that.

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He would not uproot his Brianna

until she was ready for kindergarten.

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He stayed with us until she

was about five years old.

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And fortunately we had a good

relationship with her and with him.

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He never prevented us from seeing.

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And because, in a lot of situations,

many situations, because of those

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circumstances, a lot of times the parents

are prevented from seeing the grandchild,

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and it opens up another deep wound.

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So as, as much as grief as I experienced,

this was a grief that my training

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didn't prepare me for, education

didn't prepare me for, I'll give you

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three dates and this will just sum up.

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How life can turn on a dime.

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May 2nd, 2002.

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My granddaughter was born, May 19th, 2002.

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I received word that I satisfactory

completed the requirements for my

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master's in social work degree.

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Culminating a 25 year

journey in higher education.

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And on May 26th, my daughter was

officially diagnosed with cancer,

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and on June 2nd we went to the

Dana-Farber Research Hospital in

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Boston, which is one of the best

hospitals in the world for pediatric

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sarco and research and treatment.

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And in a five minute con

consult, they basically.

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This is a con dense version.

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Elaine basically told us there was no

cure for her cancer, and the only hope

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we had was aggressive chemotherapy

to put her cancer into remission

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until until a cure could be found.

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So in that five minute consult, what I

heard loud and clears, your daughter's

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gonna die unless, so I went from

the heiss of being a grandfather.

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To the satisfaction of getting

my advanced degree to now being

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unwittingly involved in a terminal

illness journey with my only daughter.

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And I have two, two sons.

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One younger than my daughter, one younger

than my daughter, Gina, one older.

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But my whole life was just

turned upside down and.

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She she transitioned 10 months

after, after her diagnosis.

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She transitioned at home on March

st,:

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And that set me off on a path that I never

even thought I, as a parent I would ever.

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Thought I would ever embrace that

thought I would ever even be a part of.

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I ended up embracing that path,

which I know sounds a little

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strange given the context of

loss, but I did embrace that path.

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And with the help of support groups, with

the help of gradually wanting to reengage

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in life and try to do something positive

through writing, through teaching through.

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Doing grief workshops to try to help

other individuals transcend challenge.

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I gradually began to reengage in

life, but the penultimate moment

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where everything just clicked for

me was through pure serendipity

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where I met a interfaith minister

by the name of Reverend Patty Ferno.

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And Elena would take me another hour

to even tell us how, tell you your

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audience, how we met, but let's just say.

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If her computer did not black out

when she was registering online for

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a conference that I was, that I was

organizing, we would've never met.

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So she had to call me to register.

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We shared stories.

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She was involved at that the time

that I met her with the Angel of

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Hope in Long Island, New York.

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And the Angel of Hope is

a statue that is erected.

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I.

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In honor of children who have

died and she was doing ministry

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work with the parents there.

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And so we shared stories.

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I shared stories of my daughter and she

asked me very, do you believe in science?

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I said, being a psychology person

and a science-based person, I never

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really bought into that, but I think

my daughter gave me a double rainbow.

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On Father's Day.

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This was in 2009.

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And when she saw me at the conference

and I'm jumping ahead, I, I

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told her, if we see each other,

I'm gonna give you a big hug.

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So I, I saw her, gave her a hug.

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She whispered in my ear, I think

your daughter sent me a rainbow.

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And I'm thinking, great.

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I'm tired.

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And I was, I said, oh, that's great.

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And I, but I was so tired, Elaine, at the

end of the conference that I didn't really

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appreciate the gravity of this until.

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Later.

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So she said, if you ever get to Long

Island, come and stay with me and my

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husband and I'll show you my Long Island.

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So November, this was

in September of:

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Seven years after Janine transitioned.

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In November of 2010, I

found myself at her home.

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We went to a workshop that our then

colleague was putting on called

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Embracing the Power of Change, and

that was a portent of things to come.

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She.

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After the conference, we went to her home.

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It was about nine 30 at night.

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She goes, get into something comfortable.

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I'm gonna have you come into my to

where she, her sacred space, which

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is a fireplace and all kinds of

very, spiritually adorned materials.

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And from there for that entire weekend.

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I began to believe in the survival of

consciousness after death that I believed

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that my daughter's spirit existed and

that I could connect with it at any time.

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And one of the things that she

told me in retrospect, and this

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was after the experience, was that.

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On September 3rd, this was about a week

before the conference she, or two weeks

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before the conference, she was on Route

17 in New Jersey, and her husband saw

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this magnificent rainbow trans going

from one end of Route 17 to the other.

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And for those of your American listeners.

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Who know New Jersey and Route 17.

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That's one of the, I think major

thoroughfares in New Jersey, and

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there wasn't a Rain Cloud in the sky.

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There wasn't a rainstorm.

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Her husband who's said, we

gotta take a picture of this.

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So they videotaped it and all of a

sudden she's sitting on her car and

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she heard a voice in her head saying,

I need you to talk to my father.

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And.

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And she said, I'd be glad to, and I get

chills telling this part of the story.

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She goes, I'd be glad to,

but who's your father?

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It's the guy that you talked

to about the conference.

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So we were destined through divine

intervention to meet when we

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met, and I really firmly believed

that my daughter got us together.

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From there, we spent.

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10 you have marathon conversations

over the next 10 years talking about

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how psychology and spirituality

could work together to help

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individuals transcend challenge.

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So every time Patty threw out a a

teaching to me, a spiritual teaching,

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she, I would look to see how it would

align with psychology, and I'd call her

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up and say, I think this could work.

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So what, what I learned to do through

her is not abandon my core beliefs,

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but expand on that to include

other perspectives that could e.

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That could embrace that, that could

change my perspective and give me a

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greater understanding of myself and my

relationship to the world around me.

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So this is how this all happened.

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For 10 years, I really just said, we ought

to write a book about what you did for me.

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People need to know this.

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People need to know what our

about our conversations about the

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experience that you facilitated and

how it's possible to find peace.

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So finally, during the pandemic in.

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2020.

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We she was in South Carolina at the time.

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We wrote our, we wrote the

book through Google Docs.

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We published it, we rolled it out

st,:

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And I was March 1st is the

date, the month, the day of

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my daughter's transition.

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And it's called.

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When the psychology professor

met the minister, it's a three.

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It's a book about our, my one of my

spiritually transformative experience

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that she facilitated a sampling of

our conversations that can show us how

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psychology and spirituality can merge

together to help us transcend challenge.

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And also the importance of critical

thinking for our, the future and

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present generations to expand

our per, expand our perspectives.

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And the other thing that I look at,

the work that I did with Janine,

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that she helped me facilitate with

Janine also helped me do ancestral

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healing, understanding, and to

forgive my father for leaving.

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When I was five years old, and to

also understand why my mother was so

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overprotective with me after she left.

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I was angry at my mother for

overprotectiveness and angry

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at my father for leaving.

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But the work that I did with Janine

facilitated me looking at my past

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with my father and my mother, with

the help of both Patty and another

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shamanistic holistic practitioner

by the name of Susan Ach, who.

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Between the two of them helped me piece

that together and find, had me find peace

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not only with my daughter's transition,

but with my father's decision to leave and

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my mother's decision to overprotect me.

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And this perspective, this integration

of psychology and spirituality has

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informed everything that I do now.

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It informs my teaching, it informs

my service work, and what I tell

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individuals, Elena, is what you believe.

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I'm not gonna challenge that.

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'cause what you believe

is what you believe.

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And as long as it's not hurting

you or anybody else, it's all good.

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But be open to other perspectives that

you can put into, you can add to your

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core beliefs to help you get a greater

understanding of the world around you.

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Don't be afraid.

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To critically think, don't be afraid

to embrace other perspectives that can

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align with what, which core beliefs are.

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It isn't about substituting your core

other beliefs for your core beliefs.

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It's in addition to, this is what

Patty was taught during her time in the

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seminary, and this is what she taught me

and this is what I try to teach others.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: I think

that is so critically important, what

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you just said, because when you were

talking about, melding the psychology

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with the spiritual, I'm a firm believer

in everything that is out there.

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Okay.

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I'm what I call a recovering Catholic.

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I grew up Catholic.

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I am now spiritual.

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I am not Catholic.

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However.

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In all of the religions, in all of the

spiritual teaching, in Buddhism, in

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Hinduism, in all of these things, there

are nuggets of truth that you can bring

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together to augment the beliefs you have.

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And when you really start to look at

some of them, some of the far flung.

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Religions and spirituality and what have

you, they really do have a lot in common.

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Yep.

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And melding the science,

melding the psychology with the

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spirituality to me only makes

sense because we are all energy.

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That's been proven.

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Okay.

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You, it's not woo.

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It's not out there.

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It's stone cold fact.

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Yeah.

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And building on that with

everything else that's out there.

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I know watching my parents who

had to go through an awful lot

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with both of their children.

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Basically dying and being very ill.

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It's a lot to take and other people

in the family and their religion, I.

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That faith is what got them

through those tough times.

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So that is something that I see valuable.

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It's not something I had, it's

not something that, that I found

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within that religion, but I

absolutely understood that they did.

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And it was a huge boon to them to

make it through those tough times.

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Dave Roberts: Yeah, and like

you I'm a recovering Catholic

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as well too and I would.

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Be considered.

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I'm gonna take a quote from my, one

of my favorite authors, Kent Bert, who

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calls himself a gorilla spiritualist.

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And that's what I am.

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I take a little bit of Buddhism,

native American teachings of animals

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and nature, some aspects of scripture

and Catholicism nature therapy, all of

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that informs my awareness of the world.

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Spirituality is very individualized.

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And it's about what?

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Practices are gonna resonate with your

belief system that are gonna help you

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gain a greater awareness of yourself and

feel connected to something greater than

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yourself and give us greater purpose.

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Spirituality in and of itself,

individuals, they have a high sense

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of spirituality or place a high sense

of importance, sense, spirituality,

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it's protective against mental health,

mental illness against depression.

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Having that sense of spirituality

gives us a sense of purpose, not

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only to ourselves, but to others.

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Yeah.

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And a sense of connectivity, which

is what we need as human beings.

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We're not, we were not made.

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To live in isolation.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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I don't think, I don't think human I don't

think many animals were made to live in

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isolation, but particularly not humans.

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Yep.

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And one thing that I find sad is that

in the western world, we have gone to

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the nuclear family and that really.

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I think leaves a big hole in learning.

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And you know the, what is it they say?

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It takes a village to raise a child.

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Yeah, it really does.

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And I'm very fortunate because my parents

not only brought me to Canada with them,

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but instead of bringing material goods,

they took that money and they brought

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my grandmother and my aunt with us.

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Because family is what's most important.

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Dave Roberts: Yep.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

And that's how I grew up.

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And those were the things that mattered.

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And I think I'm very blessed

to, to have been brought up

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in, in that sort of a family.

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We certainly were not perfect or quiet

or any of those things and we were pretty

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much dirt poor, but we lack for nothing.

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In terms of joy and understanding

that being together and

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laughter doesn't cost anything.

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Dave Roberts: No, and my version

of family when I was growing

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up was, all the relatives were

kinda like close to each other.

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Everybody lived in a few

blocks of each other.

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I lived with my mother, my maternal

grandmother, and my maternal

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aunt together, they raised me.

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So that was our idea of family.

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And I even believe in the Native

American culture is that they're, they

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have a very extended meaning of family.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Where, the uncle might take the

role, let's say, of a counselor to

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a child because a father may not

be objective enough for whatever

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reason to be able to do that.

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And I'm paraphrasing and I don't, in

terms of what I understand, but everybody.

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Who's affiliated with the extended family

has some type of a role with that child.

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And we can learn a lot from that in

terms of the definition of family

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that goes beyond the nuclear family.

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And that literally it does take a village

and it takes a group of individuals

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outside of the family to raise that

child and to instill them with the

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principles that are gonna allow them

to make a positive mark in the world.

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Absolutely.

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And because we came to

this country so far away.

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It was just my mom, my dad, myself.

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:

Dave Roberts: Yep.

367

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: And

my grandmother, my aunt, and

368

:

then my parents had my sister.

369

:

So we were a very small family, but

you gravitate to the people like you.

370

:

And so we have an extended Canadian

family of Scott's people that just

371

:

became aunts and uncles because.

372

:

We were, the, our little port in a

storm because we had the same beliefs.

373

:

We came from the same strata of

life, if you will, in Scotland.

374

:

And that's how it was done.

375

:

And when my uncle Alec got ill, my parents

took in my Aunt Margaret and the boys.

376

:

And when my, my.

377

:

Father's sister died.

378

:

My uncle Alex stepped up in like 10

minutes and put my father on a plane to

379

:

go home to Scotland to deal with that.

380

:

I was seven years old at the time.

381

:

And it's just, when you see

that as a child, those are the

382

:

things that really impact you.

383

:

And it wasn't that we were a great big

family 'cause it was just my sister and I.

384

:

Seeing, seeing other family, like

big families was really interesting

385

:

'cause we didn't have that.

386

:

But the close knit, we often saw it

in the people that had a lot of kids,

387

:

they had that same very close knit.

388

:

Everybody kinda looked

out for somebody else.

389

:

And that's my, my grandmother used

to say all the time needs must.

390

:

And as a kid, I thought that

was the stupidest thing to say.

391

:

I thought, what the hell does that mean?

392

:

But as an adult, I understand yeah.

393

:

Needs must when you need you must

find a way within the family to, to

394

:

function to go on or everything stops.

395

:

Yep.

396

:

And.

397

:

They I come from hardworking people

who were not afraid to get down

398

:

on their knees and work hard.

399

:

It was just the way it was,

and I'm very grateful for that.

400

:

Dave Roberts: Yeah, and my

mother modeled that too.

401

:

She always worked hard.

402

:

She never complained.

403

:

She always was grateful for what she had.

404

:

She instilled a moral fiber in

me where I knew right from wrong.

405

:

She was very supportive

of anything that I did.

406

:

And, I think as I got older and I

started looking back on my relationship

407

:

with her, there's a lot of things

that I wish I had done differently.

408

:

And hindsight's always 2020,

but, I've made peace with that.

409

:

I've seen silent prayer to her.

410

:

And that's the other thing I've learned.

411

:

It's just not Janine who's in my circle.

412

:

It's all my other ancestors

who have gone before her.

413

:

Yeah.

414

:

Janine is part of this great

universal oneness that.

415

:

That can influence everything that I do.

416

:

And it's just not hers.

417

:

It's everybody else that has meant

something to me in my life that has

418

:

had an impact that is now on the other

side, that have walked on, that have

419

:

passed on, that have transitioned that

I draw inspiration from every day.

420

:

Yeah.

421

:

And on my desk I have an ancestral.

422

:

Where, oh wow.

423

:

I have pic, pictures of my

father, pictures of my mother, my

424

:

grandmother, pictures of my daughter

and also my two beloved cats.

425

:

I have their cremains as well there too.

426

:

So it's like anytime that I

want to remember or connect,

427

:

all I gotta do is look.

428

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: And this is

something friends and I were talking

429

:

about last week in the past few weeks.

430

:

It's the age we're at.

431

:

Okay.

432

:

A bunch of our friends are losing

their parents if they haven't already.

433

:

And we were talking about the fact

that in, in our family and in some

434

:

of my friends' families, my two

youngest grandchildren are at the

435

:

MO 11 and eight, and my grandmother

died in:

436

:

They didn't even get to meet

my mom 'cause she died in:

437

:

And yet when we are having dinner,

when the whole family's together

438

:

and we're talking about something,

they'll often make a joke about, oh,

439

:

Grand would've done such and such

or Granny would've liked whatever.

440

:

Because we talk about

everybody that's gone so much.

441

:

They're with us and the

kids feel the same way.

442

:

It's only the older kids that got to

meet any of the, like my grand, my

443

:

grandmother or my aunt or what have you.

444

:

And it's really interesting because

it's up to us to retain those memories.

445

:

Yep.

446

:

Because all the wisdom,

all the goodness, all the.

447

:

All the joy they brought to us in life.

448

:

I love that we get to carry that

on by maintaining their memories.

449

:

And I do the same now with my

friend Andrea and the other people

450

:

that, that I have sadly lost to

suicide because I think it's really

451

:

important that we say their names.

452

:

Dave Roberts: Yes.

453

:

Absolutely.

454

:

And it's important that we talk about

them in the present tense because

455

:

they're still a part of our families.

456

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Absolutely.

457

:

Dave Roberts: And that

keeps the memories alive.

458

:

It keeps the continued

bond with them alive.

459

:

And it also preserves the

history of your family.

460

:

'cause one of the biggest mistakes

I think, that can be made is not

461

:

talking about somebody because.

462

:

Yes.

463

:

Some, somebody else in the

family may not know that person.

464

:

It's you, it's important to,

to keep that history alive.

465

:

It's important to keep their

memory alive because they will

466

:

forever be a part of your family.

467

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh, absolutely.

468

:

And I think of it like

when I meet new people.

469

:

I didn't know them before.

470

:

I need to find out things about

them to become friends with them.

471

:

So why would it be any different

with people that were in

472

:

my life for however long?

473

:

I wanna maintain that memory and maintain

it for the generations that come after us.

474

:

What is it they say?

475

:

If you don't remember history,

you're doomed to repeat it.

476

:

Dave Roberts: That

477

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

goes for the good stuff too.

478

:

You wanna maintain the good stuff,

you wanna keep the traditions

479

:

alive, you have to pass those on.

480

:

Dave Roberts: And I think Frederick

Nietzche, the German philosopher, said

481

:

something to the fact that, and I'm

probably, I'm gonna paraphrase this.

482

:

If you deny your past,

you deny your existence.

483

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Absolutely.

484

:

Absolutely.

485

:

Dave Roberts: So the past is everything

I did in the past has dictated the

486

:

choices I've made in the present.

487

:

Everything in the past is

connected with the present.

488

:

If you take a look at Native

American Crow Medicine, Crow is.

489

:

And this has been Jamie Sam's and

David Carson's book Medicine Cards.

490

:

Honor the past as your teacher.

491

:

Honor the present as your creation.

492

:

Honor the future as your inspiration.

493

:

It's past, present, and future.

494

:

All coming together to help us determine

the kind of world that we wanna live

495

:

in, and help us to co-create our own

reality in conjunction with the universe.

496

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

Oh, ab, absolutely.

497

:

And just one thing you had said,

you talked about your two cats.

498

:

I think it's really important that we

also maintain the pets we've had in our

499

:

lives because it's the only way that we

can teach children how to manage death.

500

:

And not be terrified of death or not be.

501

:

I was terrible up until a number of

years ago where don't talk about it.

502

:

I don't wanna know.

503

:

My grand's getting old.

504

:

I no, I don't wanna know any of that.

505

:

Don't talk about that.

506

:

And my father thought it was hilarious to

always say to me don't you worry about it.

507

:

I'm still gra grass side up.

508

:

For his, I'm not leaving this

house until I leave boots up.

509

:

He's dad, that's horrible.

510

:

He no, it's real life.

511

:

Like you have to deal with that.

512

:

I'm blessed.

513

:

I had him till he was 92 and we just

lost him this year and I was talking

514

:

to someone about a month ago and I

said, yeah, my father is my hero.

515

:

And she said, oh, that's nice

you're still talking in the present.

516

:

'cause he just died.

517

:

And I said no.

518

:

'cause he's still my father.

519

:

Dave Roberts: Absolutely.

520

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

You'll always be my father.

521

:

Dave Roberts: Yep.

522

:

Relationships don't die

because the physical body does.

523

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: No, not at all.

524

:

Dave Roberts: And it's not pathological.

525

:

It's not an indication of mental

illness or any type of pathology.

526

:

If we continue to remember,

continuing to remember is a

527

:

way that we move through grief.

528

:

It's a way that we integrate

our grief so that we can.

529

:

We can reengage in life with meaning

and acceptance, accepting that our

530

:

li our world is gonna be the way

it is without the physical presence

531

:

of our loved ones, but yet we're

willing to engage in life regardless.

532

:

And I also say acceptance

does not mean closure.

533

:

There's never closure to a life.

534

:

It's been over 22 years

since Janine transitioned.

535

:

There are days I want her here.

536

:

There's days I yearn for

her physical presence.

537

:

Yeah.

538

:

But it, as part of the human experience,

and I've also looked at that now as

539

:

another reminder of my love for her.

540

:

The pain that I have now of her lack of

presence is not no longer a curse for me.

541

:

It's a reminder of the love

that I still have for her.

542

:

And that's never gonna,

that's never gonna die.

543

:

And when we meet again, it's gonna be

one hell of a reunion when we meet.

544

:

I.

545

:

Until then I'm going to be, I'm gonna be

of service I can for as long as I can.

546

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Part

of that, for me, I believe

547

:

that I call it the grief train.

548

:

I believe we get on the grief

train with the first person that

549

:

we lose, however that may be.

550

:

And in essence, we never

really get off again.

551

:

We can stop in certain stations for a

while, but it allows us to build empathy

552

:

and to share stories with those who get on

the train with us and those who, who may

553

:

not be handling it as well, or maybe we

are not handling it as well at that time.

554

:

And I believe it is a.

555

:

An ongoing journey for the

rest of your human life.

556

:

The grief train is part of that

journey, and that's, I think, part

557

:

of what unites us as humans too.

558

:

Dave Roberts: And it's not only

grief due to death, but it's

559

:

due to other associated losses.

560

:

It's divorce it's moving,

it's selling a home.

561

:

Grief is a, is a.

562

:

Is interwoven into the fabric of our life.

563

:

Yeah.

564

:

And there's no getting away from it.

565

:

So it's like, how do we coexist with it?

566

:

How do we make friends with it?

567

:

How do we find meaning as a result of it?

568

:

Yeah.

569

:

Yeah.

570

:

That's the challenge that we have.

571

:

That's the task that we have for as long

as we're living the human experience.

572

:

Yeah.

573

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: And I think

it's good to, to examine our feelings

574

:

and it's so important now because.

575

:

This is part of the problem for

men who have been brought up in the

576

:

patriarchy to be so stoic and so

lacking in feeling It's really hard.

577

:

We're starting to see cracks

now, and people like yourself are

578

:

understanding that you have to go

through the feelings in order to

579

:

function and be mentally healthy

and what have you and those changes.

580

:

We're making incremental changes

now, thank God, because we lose

581

:

way too many men because of the

silence and the stoicism that.

582

:

It's, no, it's no longer that kind of

world and we need to be super open.

583

:

Yep.

584

:

About people being able to share

their feelings with those around them.

585

:

And also taking the time to reach out

to people, particularly the men in

586

:

our lives, and just ask, are you okay?

587

:

Really, are you okay today?

588

:

Because a lot of times people

just say that and somebody

589

:

will say, fine and leave it.

590

:

And the next thing you know they're

gone because fine is not a good answer.

591

:

Fine just means you're

avoiding the question.

592

:

Dave Roberts: And I think part of

it is sometimes I think society's

593

:

belief that men are supposed to be

tough or supposed to handle be the

594

:

problem solvers, take their families.

595

:

Yeah.

596

:

Problems on their shoulders and be

the protector of the family, but

597

:

men feel just as intensely as women.

598

:

We just we just deal with it differently.

599

:

We don't e we may not emote, but we work

through our feelings, either through

600

:

activity through problem solving.

601

:

But one of the most poignant things

that happened to me is I was.

602

:

In the hospital when my daughter was going

through chemotherapy and there were times

603

:

Elaine, I didn't know what was worse.

604

:

Her, the, her cancer of the chemo.

605

:

Yeah.

606

:

And I was sitting there, what she was

sleeping and I was sitting there, with my

607

:

head bound out wondering how in the world

am I gonna get through the fact that I'm

608

:

gonna likely lose the love, of my, yeah.

609

:

The love of my life, the apple of my eye.

610

:

How am I gonna, how am I

gonna work through that?

611

:

All of a sudden this nurse came

up to me and she just put her hand

612

:

on my hand and said, are you okay?

613

:

And I choked up.

614

:

I.

615

:

I didn't tell her I wasn't.

616

:

Okay.

617

:

I just choked up and I just, yeah.

618

:

But she knew I wasn't,

that's why she asked me.

619

:

Yeah.

620

:

And she was the one person that

did not assume my story, stoicism.

621

:

She did not assume that I was strong.

622

:

She did not assume that I

was getting through this.

623

:

She knew I was hurting, and she

asked me and that's all it took.

624

:

And I nearly, I almost lost it.

625

:

I got really emotional because

she took the time to say, Hey,

626

:

I know you're hurting too.

627

:

It isn't just your wife,

it isn't just your kids.

628

:

I know you are too.

629

:

And that, that meant a lot to me.

630

:

That one little gesture.

631

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

632

:

And it, it is so important, and I've

told this story before, but when I was,

633

:

I guess about 12 or 13, we

had gone home to Scotland and.

634

:

For one, I don't know what happened.

635

:

I don't know the backstory.

636

:

I just know in the middle of the night I

woke up and my mom and dad were sitting

637

:

on the edge of the couch and my dad

was slumped over and it was like my

638

:

mother was comforting him and it was

like somebody threw cold water on me

639

:

like, this is not supposed to happen.

640

:

That's my father.

641

:

Like he's the rock.

642

:

And my mother knew that I was

there and my mother tried to work

643

:

through this with me for the next

few months because it completely

644

:

changed how I felt about my father.

645

:

I was so confused as to what was going on.

646

:

And as a teenager, it was.

647

:

It was just that time of hormone

soup and everything is, I wasn't

648

:

allowed to go to dances and yada.

649

:

And I remember saying to my

mother, I don't even like him,

650

:

and she said, do one thing for me.

651

:

If you never do anything else, I

will never ask you for another thing.

652

:

Do not ever say that to your father.

653

:

I thought, okay, that's weird.

654

:

And it was only maybe a couple of weeks

when, I don't know if I saw the light or

655

:

what happened, but he was my dad again.

656

:

And whatever had happened didn't matter.

657

:

'cause I didn't know.

658

:

It was weird because I spent

the next two years disliking my

659

:

grandfather and it wasn't anything

that I should have disliked him for.

660

:

It's just funny how we.

661

:

Internalize things that

don't make sense to us.

662

:

But I never did tell my dad that

I didn't like him, and I'm really

663

:

grateful that I didn't because

he was a very gentle person.

664

:

My mother knew that.

665

:

Yeah.

666

:

Dave Roberts: And yeah.

667

:

And when we get to the afterlife,

all of that stuff doesn't matter.

668

:

All of the indiscretions that we

had is with the human contract.

669

:

All of the conflicts, it's all about

love and life in the afterlife.

670

:

And just from reading accounts

of individuals we've had

671

:

near death experiences.

672

:

Yeah.

673

:

What they've seen.

674

:

What they've experienced.

675

:

That's what it's all about.

676

:

Love light and there's no animosity.

677

:

I've had people ask me, do you think, my

my, my father's gonna be upset with me?

678

:

No.

679

:

In the afterlife, all of that stuff goes.

680

:

We live the human experience.

681

:

We contract for certain experiences

with each other in this lifetime, our

682

:

soul's contract, and it's all meant.

683

:

The experiences that we have are

all meant for the evolution of

684

:

our soul and the greater evolution

and for the karmic resolution of

685

:

past lifetimes of interactions.

686

:

But the human experience, we're

not supposed to understand that

687

:

to, that we're not supposed to

remember all our past lives.

688

:

'cause it would basically, oh my God.

689

:

Yeah.

690

:

That would be would basic.

691

:

Yeah.

692

:

It would basically interfere with the

contract we have in this lifetime.

693

:

Yeah.

694

:

Although there's past life regression.

695

:

Therapists that will allow you to yeah.

696

:

Will hook into that.

697

:

But and individuals who can read the SIC

records, that can give you some idea Yeah.

698

:

As well too.

699

:

And when that happens, it's and I've

had that, that happen to me through

700

:

interactions with other spiritual

teachers where I've come to understand,

701

:

my roles another lifetime and I said,

ah, this makes sense in this lifetime.

702

:

But yeah.

703

:

The human experience a lot of times

doesn't allow us to understand for

704

:

the depth of it, and we're maybe we're

not supposed to in, in many ways.

705

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

706

:

I have a spiritual teacher who said

that two things, souls travel in packs.

707

:

Dave Roberts: Yep.

708

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: So you'll

have certain, commonalities with people.

709

:

You'll wonder why you hit it off so well.

710

:

And the other thing is that.

711

:

The souls choose the human experience.

712

:

Yep.

713

:

And that's, some people are

into roller coasters and some

714

:

people are into the teacups.

715

:

Yep.

716

:

And roller coasters aren't

necessarily the greatest things.

717

:

No.

718

:

If that's what you choose, but tho

those who choose it, you always have

719

:

that free will to change your mind.

720

:

Dave Roberts: Absolutely.

721

:

The soul has free will to stay

in eternal state of energy.

722

:

They have the free will

to choose their existence.

723

:

And you, what you said about what

they said about soul packs, it's very

724

:

similar to the work of Brian Weiss, who

talked about the same group of souls

725

:

will travel through lifetimes together

and they will contract with different

726

:

relationships with each other for the

evolution of the souls of that group.

727

:

So it's very consistent with Weiss's work.

728

:

Yeah.

729

:

With past life and past life regression,

730

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

yeah, my, my spiritual teacher,

731

:

I will say one last thing.

732

:

My son a few years into my working with

her, he nicknamed her the Holistic Missile

733

:

because she got right to

the heart of the matter.

734

:

Dave Roberts: I like that,

that'd be a heck of a brand.

735

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah,

it was she's retired now, but

736

:

yeah we took it and ran with it.

737

:

Dave Roberts: I would've too.

738

:

That's a that's priceless.

739

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Yeah.

740

:

This has been a very

interesting discussion.

741

:

I I can't say how much it's

my heart sits with yours.

742

:

For Janine and what she had to

go through with and what you went

743

:

through with on behalf of her as well.

744

:

I love that, that you have a granddaughter

that, that allows Janine to still

745

:

not just be with you, but also be

with you in that bigger sense, which

746

:

I think is really quite wonderful.

747

:

I'd like to leave our

audience with one little.

748

:

Tip or tweak that you use every day that

just helps you make life a little better.

749

:

Dave Roberts: I'm going to take this from

one of my favorite books, Tuesdays with

750

:

Maury by Mitch Alba and Maury Schwartz.

751

:

Talked and Maury Schwartz was a Jewish

agnostic, but he was very spiritual.

752

:

Okay?

753

:

And he embraced meditation.

754

:

He embraced Buddhism.

755

:

One of the things that, and this sticks

with me, and he asked, I think he asked

756

:

Mitch Al in the book, if there's a bird

on your shoulder tell, and that bird told

757

:

you that today is the last day of your

life, how would you choose to live it?

758

:

So for me, I would tell everybody

live each day as if that bird

759

:

on your shoulder is telling you

it's the last day of your life.

760

:

How would you choose to

make that day meaningful?

761

:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna:

Oh, that's wonderful.

762

:

Dave Roberts: And that's what I live with.

763

:

'cause I'm grateful as I get older.

764

:

I'm grateful for the fact that I get

up and take nourish in the morning.

765

:

I'm grateful for the, for God, the

universe that has given me another

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day of life to do what I love doing.

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So I try to live each day as if

that I got that bird on my shoulder

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telling me today is it, how are

you gonna choose to live it?

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Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Oh

that is absolutely beautiful.

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I love that.

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I love that.

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Dave Roberts, thank you ever so much.

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You'll see the link down below for Dave's

book and all the information will be right

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below us in the show notes and transcripts

along with Dave's file and how you can

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connect with him should you wish to.

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I thank you so much, Dave, for

coming and chatting with us.

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I thank our audience for being here, and

as per usual, I always say, make the very

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:

most of your today, every day, and we're

gonna see you next time, so bye for now.

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Dave Roberts: Bye-bye.

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Voiceover: Thank you for being

here for another inspiring episode

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:

of Suicide Zen Forgiveness.

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We appreciate you tuning in.

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Please subscribe and download on your

favorite service and check out SZF

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YouTube channel or Facebook community.

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If you have the chance to leave

a five star rating or a review,

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it'd be greatly appreciated.

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Please refer this to a friend you

know who may benefit from the hope

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and inspiration from our guests.

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Suicide Zen Forgiveness was

brought to you by the following

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sponsors, TROOL Social Media, the

Digital Integration Specialists.

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Let them get you rocking page

one in the search results.

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Canada's keynote, humorous, Judy Croon,

motivational speaker, comedian, author,

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and standup coach at Second City.

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Judy has been involved for over

a decade in the City Street

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Outreach program in Toronto.

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Do you have a story to share?

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Do you know someone you think

would be a great guests hero?

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Please go to SZF four two.com

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and for our American listeners,

that's s zf four two.com.

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Thank you for listening and we hope.

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To see you again

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:

Elaine @TheDarkPollyanna: Through

the pain, we all belong, Together

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in hope, because you matter.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for Suicide Zen Forgiveness Stories re Suicide Loss | Ideation | Mental Health | Offering Hope |Empathy for All
Suicide Zen Forgiveness Stories re Suicide Loss | Ideation | Mental Health | Offering Hope |Empathy for All
Shattering Stigma Igniting Hope

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About your host

Profile picture for Elaine Lindsay

Elaine Lindsay

A unique blend of finely tuned chaos with a boatload of compassion. An unfiltered speaker, resilience mentor, and podcast host with 50+ years of lived experience navigating suicidal ideation, Pollyanna’s glad game, trauma, chronic illness, and the power of showing up anyway.

Elaine Lindsay🎤 Speaker | Host | Podcaster | 6x Suicide Loss |@TheDarkPollyanna - Opinionated AF
#Youmatter | Let’s start #ConverSAVEtions

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